Ken Clarke differentiates date rape from 'serious rape'

[NotFromConcentrate]

AIBU to think it's time he went?

At risk of repeating myself again ccpccp
Here is what I said further up thread:

'We know what he meant to say nancy fact is it is not what he did say and therefore gave a mixed, inaccurate and quite frankly dangerous message to the public.'

and in another post

'If a rape victim having just being raped say yesterday listens to his ill thought words on the radio. That could be enough to stop her reporting it, to stop her asking for help. That is why words like these can be so dangerous and why it is important that people in Kenneth Clarke's position need to realise the potential impact of their words.

IMO someone with his level of education, experience in both law and politics should understand the power of words and moderate their language appropriately.'

Is that clearer why I have issues with his words or am I still speaking a different language?

hairylights: Why do people always cite the underage scenario in the debate about rape sentencing? And why do people also cite the (very rare) more complex (and often hypothetical) cases.

Because it's ideal source material for a classical strawman argument:

i) Feminists/tree-huggers argue that all rape is the same and equate a young boy with a ten days younger GF with a serial rapist of strangers in parks

ii) Quite obviously, the boy in question is not a rapist are not the same thing

Therefore:

iii) all rape is not the same. Furthermore, feminist tree-huggers are evil.

Usually followed swiftly by an elegant transition to ad-hominem:

"Evil radical feminist tree-huggers who want to jail boys for being boys say all rape is rape. Therefore it isn't".

Logical fallacies are just so much more fun with a sprinkling of misogyny!

XStitch Fwiw I think you are absolutely right and an awesome lady. And I'm so sorry for what happened to you.

So were agreed Clarke didnt say rape wasnt serious. Excellent.

Er ccpccp I said what I have reposted pages ago and did you read the second part of my post as to why it is still wrong what he said?

I don't think Clarke should resign, it was a verbal faux pas but its no worse than that and if we sacked ministers everytime they committed one we'd have a revolving door. His department policies are pretty sound IMO so I don't see the point in sacking him and risking derailing the legislative programme.

it is worse than 'just' a faux pas because this is the Justice Minister and it's a very serious issue which is historically dealt with very badly.

ahh ccpccp again.

Please ignore him ladies. It would seem he is an expert in all things offenisve and ignorant.

You're right ccp, he didn't say that rape isn't serious.

He said that some rape isn't as serious as other rape. Specifically, he said that date rate was not as serious as other sorts of rape. Like this:

"And a serious rape where, you know, violence and an unwilling woman, the tariff's much longer than that. "

Because of course rape without physical violence doesn't really count, obviously sticking a penis in a vagina against the woman's wishes isn't in itself an act of violence, and of course all those rapes involving willing women aren't so bad either.

yes you are right mamazon.

I reckon ccpccp would make a good politician :)

there is no such thing as a non violent rape.

To physically push a penis insid a woman who does not want it there will at the very least involve holding her down and pushing her legs apart.

Why it is that this is so fucking difficult for people to fathom i just don';t understand.

I have a 20 year old brother and equally ignorant parents with whom i have spent the day arguing this issue with. I was hoping to come on here for some sanity

I guess that depends on your definition of good.

If you forgive him for his 'verbal faux pas' there is still the issue that he thinks the sentencing statistics are skewed because of all the lovely young lads jailed for having consensual sex with their gfs. He doesn't know what time rapists serve and he should know. The woman who phoned the programme was a 'classic rape' victim, stranger in a park, repeat offender and he was out in under 2 years.

this is a horrifying case. Learning disabled 16yo, pre-meditated, repeated gang rape, filmed, imprisoned, covered with caustic soda which has scared 50% of her body. 3 of her rapists got between 6 and 9 years. A crime could hardly be more serious than this but her attackers will only serve 3-4.5 years. It didn't happen on KCs watch but it does show what a joke rape sentencing is, even if you manage to get a conviction. Its total bollocks that the average sentence looks low because of skewed stats. It looks low because it is low.

Have not read all the posts-sorry if being repeated...

Yes he bloody well should resign or better still get sacked.

What he said is what he thinks, clearly.

He really thinks there are different sorts of rape. He thinks some rapists should get a half sentence if they plead guilty [have i heard this right?]. so, presumably, that means more unsafe people out on the streets. that means we have to fear more for our loved ones when they are out. that means less justice for victims. Nothing of what i have heard from snippets on the tv/radio, seem to fit well with me at all. I am disgusted by him and the fact that he is in his position makes it a hundred times worse.

No excuses. he couldnt/wont even appologise. he should be ashamed of himself and his party should be ashamed of him.

He is a vile human being.

I wonder if MN could do a poll of unreported rape/reported rape no conviction/reported and convicted, see what kind of figures they get....

Anyone hear him laughing at the suggestion he resign?

Proper laughing his stupid head off.

ellodarlin yes I remember that case well. I started crying on the tube when the sentences (and associated outrage from women's rights and disability rights groups) were reported on the front page of the metro.

thefirstMrs I saw that and couldn't believe the gall of the man! He knows he has upset scores of raped women across the country, and I expected him to look hot and bothered, maybe lots of 'no comment' to the journos until David Cameron he forms a proper apology. Instead he literally laughed in the faces of everyone who felt upset by his grossly insensitive (at best) comments.

Fuckmunching cunt.

KC hasn't been sacked or resigned - all he's said is he'll choose his words more Carefully next time - so I guess that's it.
He is on QT tonight - that should be interesting

A lot of people on here seem to have lifted their opinion straight from the Daily Mail. I am unsurprised to see it linked to here.

Of course the Mail want him out, but that's nothing to do with what they claim he said about rape. I guess their February campaign to get him sacked didn't work so they're milking the hell out of this.

Hahaha! Yes. That's what all the women posting on this thread have done noblegiraffe

Got me there. Outed as a Mail reader. Haha.

I don't read the mail. I get my opinions from living every day as a victim of rape, my knowledge of the English language, years of witnessing the effects of how people say things. You do know that what you say is only a tiny percentage of the message you convey don't you.