To be slightly upset & insulted with DP's request for a cohabiting & pre-nuptial agreement?

[jammydoger]

I'm not too sure how I feel about this so just wanted to get an external view point to this.

DP and I have been together for 4 years now, cohabiting for 18 months. I'm currently 23+4 pregnant with our first, also house hunting which has pushed us to sort out our finances, will's and the rest.

So yesterday he requested that we should direct our solicitor to draft up both a cohabiting agreement and pre-nup while were at it (were planing to get married next year). The main concern at this stage is the house purchase whilst I'll be putting up 50k he's contributing 100k to the deposit.

Now I don't have an issue with a pre-nup per se but it raises certain questions on how he views our relationship. Obviously he wants to protect himself which is fair enough but its got my back up a little that he sees me as a threat to his wealth.

The idea of entering a marriage with a contract that deals with what happens in the event of the marriage failing seems to question our commitment to each other. Or AIBVU?

Not sure what you are trying to say other than to tell me I'm not a lawyer! I've no intention of giving a detailed case law analysis here but I felt it relevant to let the OP (and others) know that there has been a fundamental change of the view of prenups under English law.

My mother took my father to the cleaners; my father's second wife took him to the cleaners; my mother's second husband took her to the cleaners.

When I met the DH I owned my own house outright in SW London and in addition had another very tidy sum to put towards our joint home when we got married - and to buy out the DH's ex girlfriend on the their joint flat which had begun to recover from negative equity. DH was at the start of his career and I was ready to give up mine to become a SAHM.

Of course we had a pre-nup, it made complete and absolute sense and I don't understand why any sane couple wouldn't have one.

Are you planning on giving up your career and becoming financially dependent on him?

Tbh if you were looking to come into a lot of money I'd recommend to you not to get married.

No remotely competent solicitor would allow you to sign a pre-nip without getting your own advice anyway since it would probably make it worthless. It's covered on about day 3 of law school in big red letters marked Conflict of Interest.

Pre-nip? Or even a pre-nup (bloody Apple)

I'll be having a pre nup drawn up to protect myself and my son should me and oh split up. I've bought a house put a hefty deposit down and the mortgage is in my name, he will be contributing towards household bills and the baby but not the mortgage. The way I see it is I'm protecting my child's future. He had the choice to jointly buy the house but he didn't want to! I think it's a sensible thing to do to be honest as I was nearly screwed over by ex oh!

I wouldn't be so much worried about the pre-nup as more by the attitude that you taking a year off to look after the both of yours child is not a contribution!

If that is his attitude before you are married it is not going to get any better. What happens if you have a second child or/and a third? I bet you are going to be responsible for all child care and also I bet eventually all household chores. This is you part of the marriage/relationship and not a contribution.

He is already saying you are not an equal partner and he deserves more than you.

What DilysPrice said, Sun 15-May-11 20:51:38.

Plus
"So yesterday he requested that we should direct our solicitor to draft up both a cohabiting agreement and pre-nup while were at it (were planing to get married next year). "

1. There is no "our" solicitor in such a case - you need your own solicitor, who will consider points that would never occur to you.
2. I'm concerned that he waited until you were pregnant to spring this on you.
3. If he only views "contributions" as financial, you will have to invoice him monthly for the childcare, PA, cleaning and cooking services you will be providing to 'his' household. You are not 'free', he'd have to pay someone else to raise his child if you were to still financially contribute. (Definitely run this one past him )

prenup = sensible

Tell him what the annual gross salary for a full time nanny is. Add this to your 50 k, and ask him to shove his 100 k up his arse.

Actually, in the long run, you would be better off NOT getting your own solicitor because if you sign this without independent legal advice the courts will likely tear it up - if they don't ignore it anyway. I'm confident (I was a law professor in a previous life) that a prenup in this case where there aren't substantial assets and there is a child would not be upheld. You are already pregnant so arguably that is also a factor. The British courts have been very reluctant to have their authority over fair settlements for women and children set aside by prenups. In legal terms, I don't think you have much to worry about. I'd be more worried about his attitude in general.
I suspect that his solicitor will want you to sign something saying that you are going to get independent advice in order to cover his own back.

I think he is smart, and you would be as well, to have everything legal and on paper. It protects you as well. I asked my now dh to sign similar when we first moved in with each other. I did not think we would break up, but I have also seen a lot of people leave a marriage with less that they brought to it.

"his opinion is I have less stake on the house (when we buy one) because a) I'll be on leave for the best part of a year so not contributing"
He has seriously screwed up ideas about what raising a family together means - obviously he thinks only earning money counts and the 'women's work' of actually birthing and caring for babies/children is so trivial he doesn't consider it.

What ShoutyHamster and others have said, basically.

jammydodger If you have been living as common law partners for some time in this flat, splitting the bills, morgage etc then that would be taken into consideration as you have contributed.

When my friend and her partner sold up she paid off the remaining morgage, took back her initial deposit and then the 8yrs of capital growth was split as follows: 136,000/8= average £17,000 per year. She got £76,500 for her initial 4.5 years living alone and paying alone and then a further £29,750 each for the 3.5yrs living as a common law man and wife, sharing bills, morgage etc.

He stated he could have been paying towards another property but was sharing and therefore entitled to a share of the capital!

Hmmm I think they are a sensible idea tbh but I can see why you would be upset - I would be too :(

My understanding is that most aren't worth the paper they're written on anyway

I think given the fact he has a lot more money that its entirely natural in this day & age that he wants to protect himself.

In my last relationship we bought a house together and thankfully we bought it as tenants in common rather than the usual joint tenants.

The above was the only reason me & my kids did not lose our home when the relationship broke down.

It's fine now whilst things are good that you get insulted at the thought of him thinking about "what if we break up" but the simple fact of the matter is that you'll probably feel entirely differently if it ever happened.

In fact, don't believe me....Eddie Murphy explains it way better than I can. Wait for the last bit on

E320 - yes, 'tennants in common' enables independent will arrangements re house but it also enables a deed of covenant which defines exactly how much of the house is owned by each party. You can have tennatnst on common and won 50/50, or any other split. That would have to be the case otherwise there would be no record of how MUCH was left in the will of each party.

DP and I have this arrangement.

But I am not sure whether the marriage contract would over-ride it if we were to marry, as in marriage all goods belong to the marriage, as I undestand it.

I'm often thinking (and worrying) about what would happend if DP and I split up, as he earns at least 3 times more than I do.... and probably has some family inheritance to expect... and he doesn't show much interested in getting married... but hey! I'm sure DS and I will be fine without his money if it comes to that!!!
I agree with CurrySpice it's probably a sensible thing to do but a bit upsetting...
I would suggest to try a clarify with yourself how you feel about it, and if you decide to go for it, make sure (as per the good advice you already got here) you're 100% comfortable with the terms of the contract
Good luck with it all, and let us know how it worked out

"Tell him what the annual gross salary for a full time nanny is. Add this to your 50 k, and ask him to shove his 100 k up his arse."

That's all v well unless the OP earns more than a f/t nanny. She is worth her f/t salary, her potential f/t salary as it would develop if she were not undertaking pg and childcare accumulated over the whole span of her future working life, OR a f/t nanny, which ever is the greater!

OP, There are 2 separate issues here, and it would be as well to separate them out: the notion of a pre-nup re his huge family inheritance, and the child/ren's inheritance of that, support for fees, lifestyle etc, (which may be reasonable) and the issue of your current house buying, and his really offensive notion that you are putting in less of a stake because of your maternity leave. It is your joint HOME, you are joint and equal parents, though you may have different roles for a while - and he is being really really unreasonable about that. His idea that you are cntributing less than a stake by having his baby would make me chuck him out...or at least it would have had me using permanent contraception, had I known in advance!

vajazzhands- I received money from family from the sale of my mothers business. His is from the sale of a house he previously sold. Hence the hefty deposit.

Xales- His attitude is worrying. How can I possibly put a value to being a sahm?

ATM we deal with expenditure 50/50 even though I earn about 25% less than he does. However some house hold expenses ie. Food, cleaner, laundry bills and recently baby purchases are coming out of my account. Which is why I'm insisting on a joint account.

There's so many valid points on here, I have to admit I haven't read them all yet. A few ladies mentioned that this should have been dealt with before children and DP was wrong to spring this on me whilst pregnant. We had planned children but after we were married not before.

chelstonmum- I have my own flat too which is why I'm very reluctant to make claims on a share of his.

The way I see it is that were making an investment for our future so the tit for tat disagreements really is very counter productive IMO. I will be getting independent advice this week, mainly for peace of mind.

Sorry - do you mean that you split household expenses 50/50 apart from food/cleaner/baby stuff which you pay for on top of that?? Surely that can't be what you mean :(

JammyDodger - there is a saying a friend of mine has:

What is FAIR is not always the same as what is EQUAL.

This applies to cntributions to your joint house: you may not make equal financial contributoins to it, but it would be FAIR to see all cintributions as equally on behalf of the family - you and him - while you are childbearing.

Also, it may apply to a joint household account - for e.g you may decide to each put in a pro-rata sum according to your earnings - so you would put in an amunt 25% less than him, and none while you are not earnoing - this would be FAIR but not equal!

We have a joint household / family account and each pay in an agreed amount each month. This pays for each and every joint famile expense, from DS's birthday presents to food, to bills, to chilcare, holdays, meals out, mortgage, insurance etc etc. The DP and I manage our respective independent expenses - his CDs, my drinks with my friends, etc.

ChristinedePizan- That's exactly right. I only thought about it yesterday. I mean I look after the house even though we both work full time atm.

I hasten to add that we do eat out now and again- he often pays. I mean I really don't have a mine/his mentality. We live together, have a child together and share expenses. I'm not about to start holding him to every penny spent.

My point is where does it stop first a legally binding agreement then a cohabiting agreement. Do I take him to court if he breaches any agreement made? Should I be collating receipts at the end of each month and say you owe me x amount?

Jammydoger, does he have children from a previous relationship? If so, could he be trying to make sure their inheritance isn't affected by the new relationship and child?