To be slightly upset & insulted with DP's request for a cohabiting & pre-nuptial agreement?

[jammydoger]

I'm not too sure how I feel about this so just wanted to get an external view point to this.

DP and I have been together for 4 years now, cohabiting for 18 months. I'm currently 23+4 pregnant with our first, also house hunting which has pushed us to sort out our finances, will's and the rest.

So yesterday he requested that we should direct our solicitor to draft up both a cohabiting agreement and pre-nup while were at it (were planing to get married next year). The main concern at this stage is the house purchase whilst I'll be putting up 50k he's contributing 100k to the deposit.

Now I don't have an issue with a pre-nup per se but it raises certain questions on how he views our relationship. Obviously he wants to protect himself which is fair enough but its got my back up a little that he sees me as a threat to his wealth.

The idea of entering a marriage with a contract that deals with what happens in the event of the marriage failing seems to question our commitment to each other. Or AIBVU?

Tell him to stick it, frankly.

I see the pros to pre-nups, as pointed out by many on here.

BUT.

1. - He has waited until you are pregnant to suggest the idea of a pre-nup??

No, sorry, too late then. By getting pregnant and planning to sacrifice a hefty slice of your earning power to give birth to and raise HIS child, HIS FUTURE HEIR, you have already made a very signficant financial commitment to him - and one which penalises you by its very nature. You didn't get all twitchy and ask for an agreement to be drawn up to e.g. give you access to his pension, as the likelihood is that yours will now end up being worth less, did you? No. Now when financial commitments look to be coming from his side, he can't show you the same faith. Very Poor Show.

1. - His comments on you 'not contributing' through ML are a bloody huge clanging alarm bell. This man needs setting straight, RIGHT NOW, on the reality of the commitment you have already made. He's worried about 50K? Perhaps you should set him straight with a few clear figures.

• The hit your career is likely to take as a simple result of you having a child and stopping work for a while to raise it/them. Is it, what, something like 300K earning power on average (can't remember where read that) through her lifetime that a woman is down as a result of motherhood? That needs building into the pre-nup.
• The permanent hit your pension is likely to take.
• The simple fact that you will be the one to stay at home, change your lifestyle out of all recognition, to raise your JOINT child. Ask him if he, in all truthfulness, would like to be the person in the partnership having this nice long 'holiday'. To be the one taken out of the workplace. To be the one left feeling financially vulnerable (with him as a partner, with this outlook, I'm guessing you will feel that way). I bet he wouldn't swap places for a kingdom.
• The physical toll of pregnancy and birth, and its aftermath. Let's make this really ridiculous, shall we? If we're talking legal arrangements, how bout you ask if it's ok to add in a a clause that says if you get a third degree tear, you can sue him for actual bodily harm and name the value of your award?

The very bald facts are, where you are with your relationship - you pregnant, and not married - YOU ARE THE ONE WHO IS MAKING THE FINANCIAL SACRIFICE, NOW AND FOR THE LONG TERM, NOT HIM.

And he stands there and says that he'd be happier, now that you are committed to the above, if the mother of his child had fewer rights to the family home than him

What a catch!

Point the facts and figures out to him and say that you've had a think and, all things considered, you think the fairest thing to do would be for him to just give you the 50k now for you to invest for yourself. When he tots up what he's about to get, it's cheap at the price :)

Sorry I see you are in the UK.

For those of you erroneously posting that prenups have no force under English law have a look here.

The OP needs independent advice and needs to know that a prenup is legally binding under English law according to the Supreme Court (by an overwhelming majority too). This is a landmark decision and all over the press last Autumn when the ruling was made.

That linkie no workie Mollio. Are you refering to the German heiress case? You're absolutely right.

The linkie workie for me. Yes, she is talking about the German heiress case.

I'm usually good at links!

original link worked for me.v interesting,was aware of this case

Oh sorry, it does if you click through to the desktop version of the site.

Ta.

Sorry yes it is the Radmacher case.

I think it's a very good idea. It should not, though, affect the fact that you are both financially responsible for your child.

you guys have 150,000 for a deposit? [shocked]

In Oct 2010, a Supreme Court test case found a UK pre nup to be legally binding.
So definitely get your own lawyer to draw one up that protects you and your children

I agree with CoteDAzur.

Get independent advice. Let the lawyers thrash out the prenup.

Relax, knowing that even if he does turn out to be an arse, you and bump will be ok (at least financially).

Summary here

It's not in the summary but iirc the husband tried to argue the prenuptial wasn't valid because it was in German (he was Italian) and he was advised by his wife's family lawyer.

I did something like this with my ex when we bought a house and I am bloody glad I did. It meant when we did split up and he tried to get half of the equity on the house I had put a 40% deposit on (an inheritance) he didn't stand a chance.

Can I ask, what is the plan while you're on ML? Will you still be expected to pay half the mortgage/bills etc? Do you share things at the moment? Do you have to split the food bill 50/50?

If so, personally I think relationships like that are such hard work, much easier to just pool money and assets. It won't be an even split, but so what, you are both making an equal contribution to the home, just earning different amounts of money from the work you do.

I'd be seriously tempted to ask him to set down how he would care for your child if you died in childbirth...has he actually considered what having a child means emotionally? If he sees everything in terms of financial values I'd wonder if he was a good bet long term. He doesn't seem to be thinking of you or the child here.

When I was pregnant and we were getting married DH's biggest worry was the birth, neither of us even thought about who earned more money or who was contributing what...your partner has got his priorities very wrong.

money is a majorly cited as a backdrop to divorce. HE does sound like he is being a bit defensive as he has a mass coming to him. Suspect there to be a family pressure as well, from his side. but sorting out money is a good idea.

Ooh big red flag - 'not contributing'.

Hi, my fiancée read this to me and I asked to borrow her username to comment. I'll start by apologising because I read your post but not the comments, so if this has all already been said then sorry. A little about me; I'm 21 and about a year ago my parents split up, it had been a long time coming (I had known they had big problems since I was about 15 and now realise it had been longer than that). One of the major problems (the main issue really) was money - not so much that it was anyone's fault, but just that they had totally different attitudes to it - whether you should share money or have seperate finances, the value of acting as a stay at home parent etc. Anyway, the point of this story is this - you need to talk to DP about your views on money, maternity leave and staying home to look after kids etc and do it now! Both for yours and DPs sake and DC's. My opinion is that you can't practically raise children without having joint finances and that staying home to look after kids (both during maternity leave and afterwards) is very valuable and because my fiancee is doing this and I am working I see what I earn as our money. I wouldn't want a prenup because if we pay the mortgage with that money I see it as as much hers as mine. If your view is different to mine it's not a problem, but if your view is different to DP it is. You need to talk to him to make sure you're on the same page, and decide how your relationship is going to work (e.g. Will you have join finances, will he support you while you're on maternity leave etc). Him wanting a prenup isn't an issue on itself, but what it tells you about his views and the fact that you are uncomfortable with it enough to post on here suggests you may have fairly divergent views and that is something you need to sort out before getting married or having kids!

"not contributing"??!! Will you be billing him for loss of earnings, housekeeping and nannying costs? I'd sign nothing in your situation unless it was a marriage contract providing you still actually want to marry him.

I wouldn't, seems like admitting defeat before you even get started.

If you do decide to go ahead with it then you need to get your own lawyer so there is no conflict of interest.

MrsMcGee is marrying a real keeper, IMO! Spot on. DH and I are on the same page when it comes to money and our family.

TeamLemon and MollieO I know you are trying to be helpful, but the Radmacher case does not make pre-nuptial agreements enforceable in Britain. That is very lazy and inaccurate reporting on the part of the Guardian and some other newspapers. This is the danger of non-lawyers interpreting case law.

What Radmacher v. Granatino does is give pre-nuptial agreements the same status in law as seperation agreements and post-nuptial agreements. They do not stand as contracts in their own right and are to be examined by the courts as to the fairness of their terms and possibly picked apart by the courts, just as before (e.g. if the courts considered that the parties had inequality of bargaining power or coercion or deceit were used, the agreement would be overriden). They are not now however automatically^ unenforcable.

See this link for more accurate reporting: www.furleypage.co.uk/news-events/blog/2010/10/28/Pre-Nuptial-Agreements-Radmacher-Case

Note also OP that Radmacher implies that, in order to be enforcable by the courts, a pre-nuptial agreement must be entered into of the parties' own free will and their decision to enter into it must be informed. This means that they must have independent legal advice.

Therefore, again, take independent legal advice. ie appoint your own solicitor on this issue.

OTOH if you do not appoint your own solicitor to give you legal advice on any such agreement, it will almost certainly be unenforcable by your husband to be. A cynical, but cheap way of protecting yourself?

Italics gone out of control above, my apologies!