to not care about immigration?

[StuckinTheMiddlewithYou]

So many people seem to have a huge problem with it and I really don't understand why.

The crazy thing is, I live in a hugely multicultural area and most of the people I know who have a problem with this, live in predominantly white suburbs.

We have a problem here with alcoholic homeless people fighting and screaming in the streets - none of them are immigrants.

Any foreigner sentenced to imprisonment of at least 12 months is deported, unless to do so would result in them being killed, tortured or subject to severe inhuman treatment, or that removing them would have a serious impact upon the rights of a family member settled in the UK.

It is not only skilled migrants we need in the UK. Most immigrants will tax and insure their cars, just as it is only a minority of British people who do not. As arguments against immigration go, I don't think this is one of much substance.

Foreign nationals not settled in the UK are not entitled to anything but emergency A&E care from the NHS. If hospitals are not checking, that is not the fault of immigration.

I can go on if you do.

Why is it the fault of the immigrant for 'taking' the British job?

Why is it not the fault of the employer for giving it to the immigrant, or the fault of the 'British youth' for not being competative enough to be the best candidate?

Sorry but you live in a world of rose tinted glasses.....

Foreigners sentanced to more than 2 years get deported I think, not 12 months.

When someone is told he is going to be deported they issue an appeal and vanish!

When someone enters this country illegally they dispose of any identifying papers so cant be deported.

People work illegally thereby not paying tax, forging documents for NHS ....

Immigranst do get benefits FGS!

We can't dop anything about UK born criminals but we can do soemthing about immigrant criminals .....

The British youth dont get jobs for a variety of reasons .... one of them is the willingness or availablity of immigrants who are generally cheaper labour. Take out the immigrant and the youth has to take the job and not rely on benefits.

Less immgrants, more jobs for UK born.

Employers are not allowed to discriminate in favour of locals.

Employers like people who will work for low wages.

British youth make more money on benefits, which is where many end up in the face of stupidly high competiton for local jobs they should be walking into.

Also some employers have to boost their "ethnic minority" numbers to look good.

ccc- I can categorically state that you are misinformed.

Liability for deportation arises after a sentence of 12 months imprisonment, or up to three periods totaling 12 months over a 5 year period. Almost all deportees start the process in detention, and very few are released during the appeal process. It is very hard to get bail. Most bail applications are refused.

Even if an immigrant has destroyed their documents, or arrived on false ones, they can be returned to their country on a one-way document.

Although it is possible to obtain false documents, there is also a document checking service that GPs and hospitals have access to.

Unless an immigrant is here for protection reasons, they cannot claim benefits until they have been granted settled status. The shortest time you can get settled status is 2 years, if you are a spouse and your partner has supported you or you have worked for those two years. For most other categories it is 5 years of showing you can support yourself financially and pay your taxes.

Is it the fault of an immigrant that they are willing to work for less money? If you believe in a free market then you believe that the market sets the level of pay. We could refuse to employ people for less, which would make UK goods more expensive, so no-one would buy them.

If people are better off on benefits, surely that is the fault of the benefit system, not immigration.

And not being able to discriminate against people because of where they were born, does not mean that they cannot employ a British person, if that person is the best for the job.

actually tax evasion is a good argument for an open borders policy. much of it is down to avoiding deportation, so if all immgration was legal, there would be less tax evasion as a consequence.

If an immigrant detroys their papers how the hell can they be sent back? The countores of origin refuse to take them! So even if Mr X arrives at LHR on Air China from Beijing direct, if Mr X has destroyed his papers they will not allow him back in. This happens a lot.

Sorry but you are wearing rose tinted glasses, and we will just have to disagree!

ccc- they (british embassy staff in conjunction with officials from the country of origin) will check birth registers in the persons' country of origin, and will do ground visits to ask neighbours etc if a persons' details can be verified. A one-way travel document will then be issued.

There are some countries that will not re-document, but China is not one of them. People are often kept in detention for years whilst the checks are carried out.

In theory ... yes .... but in reality, that is different.

And they only have to shout asylum or human rights to get let in .....

Eggy- quite. It is a disgrace that in this country there are some people who cannot be returned because of the problem with travel documents mentioned by ccc, who we still refuse permission to work. We create the system whereby they have to work illegally to survive. It makes no sense to refuse them permission to work legally.

Unfortunately, removing immigration control is not a complete answer to tax evasion- well not if you are very rich anyway, in which case you can do it with the government's blessing!

If you want to go down the route of saying that those with asylum and human rights claims should not be 'let in', then frankly, I have no more to say, as I believe you are beyond reason.

People will claim asylum .. some of them it is genuine and that is a different story.

However, many claim asylum under false pretences. Shall I start giving examples, such as the man granted asylum from ITALY? Is that reasonable?

Yes, please do give details of that case, because I do not believe it is true.

Ireland has their share too and they do not like it.

If you go to Galway, you will see refugee hostels on the seafront.

Learco Chindamo - ITALIAN - convicted of killing Philip Lawrence, the head teacher - huge case, made the headlines.

Sorry, a case for human rights as opposed to asylum but same thing. Still a load of BS.

And he is I think back in prison or has been in prison since.

And he served 14 years so was not deported....

Your turn Thistle!

And please dont say this is a one off!

Aso Mohammed Ibrahim - failed political asylum seeker still in the UK committed a number of crimes including killing a 12 year old girl .... he is still here, and still committing crimes.

Still liking our immigration rules!

Asylum is not the same thing as a claim under the Human Rights Act. There are similarities between a claim for asylum and article 3 of the Convention, which protects against torture, and severe inhuman or degrading treatment.

It obviously was not a false claim, as his appeal was successful before the court. The court will have been presented with information from probation etc to determine whether he posed a continuing threat to society. If he had been shown to be a threat at that time he would have been sent back. Maybe probation got that wrong in this case.

It does pose a couple of interesting questions- if someone has spent most of their childhood here- in this case from the age of 5 years - is his criminality not a product of our society, for which we should bear the burden of protecting the public?

There was a case on the news some time ago about a British woman calling for her rapist to be deported to Sierra Leone "so that he would not rape anyone again". Given that the police and criminal system in Sierra Leone is considerably weaker than ours, why would he be any less likely to commit another rape than if he remained in the UK? Or do foreign women not count as 'people'? What moral right do we have to palm criminals off to societies that are less well equipped to deal with them than we are? Is it really ok to care about potential victims in the UK, but not give a damn if they live abroad?

I knew of a woman trafficked as a child to the UK from her country in Africa for the purposes of sexual exploitation. Her trafficker was British. He really should have had the decency to stay in the UK and exploit British children.

Of course not.

I don't see these examples as a matter of immigration. They are issues of crime and the sociological problems that create it.

i have major issues with immigration. firstly i was made redundant during maternity leave only to discover my job was then reopened an given to an immigrant for £2000 less a year. i would of happily taken the pay cut. secondly when placing my daughter in reception class i was offered a place 7 miles away from my eldest childs school due to large amount of immigrants in my area wanting a place at the same school. thirdly all my local shops are now polish shops an if i try to go into them im made to feel like im invading their space. an just one other thought to those who think people who are facing some kind of torture in there home countries. when fleeing these countries they pass through other countries that are classified as safe in order to enter england.if if i was under any kind of threat i would run to the nearest safe place not somewhere 100s of miles.

joh - what your employer did was unlawful, and you could have brought a claim for unfair dismissal. You could have been replaced with a British person. Nothing to do with immigration.

There is a problem with overcrowding in many urban schools, yet ones in rural areas are being closed due to lack of demand. This is an issue of allocation of resources, not immigration.

I am sorry you feel uncomfortable in your local shops. I would be surprised if this is deliberate.

Most countries that border places where people are fleeing to seek asylum do not offer protection, but will routinely round up and send back non nationals. However, they are the countries that still bear the brunt of most refugees.

And honestly, if you had to leave your country because of your or your family's safety, and you had the choice of going to a country where you would face destitution, or one where you would be supported, what would you choose? Would you really expect other people to choose differently?

What I never understand is why the immigrants seem to be deemed more important than our own population. For example Joh1981's issue with school places.

Also I know that some people from the 3rd world go to Holland first then after a few years' of not working have to leave and end up here and again continue not to work. My friend works in a school where some of the parents have come from other European countries.

Thistle - how the hell can you justify the Italian staying in this country? You really should be ashamed of yourself.

And the other guy had 2 appeals before be allowed to stay, again under human rights.

Two worthless pieces of scum contributing nothing to our society. If we had decent immigration policies then they would not be here.

You have been presented with facts which you said werent true and still you justify .. or at least attempt to justify their presence.

It is still down to immigration ... end of story. What sort of person are you thistle!!!