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Original poster

to be OUTRAGED by this university lecturer???!!!

130 replies

Oakmaiden · 10/05/2011 15:46

So much so that I have lost control of my punctuation???

This is the situation: I was in a lecture this morning about Inclusion in Society. We were discussing racism and multiculturalism. Towards the end of the lecture the lecturer said that she felt that multiculturalism could be taken too far, and that since world domination was a central tenet of the Muslim faith, she thinks immigration should be curbed or she is concerned that we will be "taken over" and all have to live by Islamic laws. I mean WTF??? "World Domination is the central tenet of the Muslim Faith"???

One I had picked my jaw up off the floor I did challenge her fairly firmly. She made me get up in front of the class to tell them all why I thought she was a racist she was incorrect in her assertions. Which frankly I was more than happy to do - and was rather depressed at how many of the class seemed to agree with her.

So - was I wrong to challenge. Actually, don't answer that - no I bloody wasn't. But - should I be taking this further? Should she really be teaching inclusion/sociology to would be teachers if she cannot keep her own odious opinions out of the lectures? Should I write a letter of complaint to the course leader? Or should I just keep my head down?

OP posts:
londonone · 10/05/2011 15:48

It sounds like she made it clear she was giving her opinion. I would like to think that trainee teachers are able to cope with someone having a world view that doesn't exactly chime with theirs

RobF · 10/05/2011 15:48

She's entitled to her opinion. It's not like her views are that unreasonable, world domination IS a central tenet of the Muslim faith, like it or not. Why do you think Muslim women have little rights? Why do you think the money from Saudia Arabia is being used to build Mosques here and elsewhere in the west?

ElsieR · 10/05/2011 15:49

YANBU. I would take it further.

Chil1234 · 10/05/2011 15:49

To me it sounds as though the lecturer was playing Devils Advocate, spouting some Daily Mail-esque islamophobic trash, fully expecting to be challenged in her views to make the point. You did what was expected and presumably made a good argument. The rest sound like a bunch of sheep :)

itsabiggywhatdoidonow · 10/05/2011 15:49

too right, you should. YADNBU.

Rosebud05 · 10/05/2011 15:50

No, of course you weren't wrong to challenge her?

Personally, I would put my complaints about what she said and the say that she dealt with it in writing to her and ask for her comments, explaining what my expectations of someone in her role are. I would ask for her to refer me to the part of the syllabus that includes spouting her bigoted claptrap and to define what learning objectives she was meeting (maybe not quite in those terms).

If/when I didn't receive a satisfactory response, I would do the same to the course leader, then further and further up until I had a satisfactory agreement that she was incorrect in her views about Islam and the lecture was an inappropriate place to air them.

I say writing because then everything's visible for all to see and it's easier to keep calm.

itsabiggywhatdoidonow · 10/05/2011 15:51

Shock Robf WTF

RobF · 10/05/2011 15:52

"If/when I didn't receive a satisfactory response, I would do the same to the course leader, then further and further up until I had a satisfactory agreement that she was incorrect in her views about Islam and the lecture was an inappropriate place to air them."

Who are you to say she was wrong? Isn't she entitled to her own opinion? Who benefits from people being forced to keep their opinions to themselves? It's unnecessary censorship.

If you disagree with her, how about arguing against her, instead of telling her to shut up because you think she is wrong?

Original poster
Oakmaiden · 10/05/2011 15:52

Except Rob, no, I don't think she IS allowed her own opinion when she is supposed to be teaching about the need to be inclusive and tolerant. Or at least, she is allowed her views but she shouldn't be expressing them.

OP posts:
Chil1234 · 10/05/2011 15:53

It's a set-up? No-one else see it? Lecturer spends an hour or whatever talking to a bunch of students about racism, multiculturalism and inclusion... they're all gently nodding off at the end so she lobs in something controversial to wake them up and see if they've been listening. Clearly, only the OP had been paying attention.

NormanTebbit · 10/05/2011 15:54

You are having a discussion. It's important these ideas are spoken about. One day you may face a teenager expressing exactly that view. If you can't discuss it in a university setting, where can you discuss it?

I don't think her views are unreasonable. The French wouldn't, they don't have multiculturalism they expect immigrants to conform to French culture. Religions are designed to convert as many followers as possible, same with evangelical Christianity.

Original poster
Oakmaiden · 10/05/2011 15:54

I would like to think you are right, Chil, but I don't think you are.

OP posts:
florencedougal · 10/05/2011 15:54

why are you frightened of other people's views and opinions?

maybe she isnt wrong and you are if so many agreed with her ?????!!!!!!

londonone · 10/05/2011 15:55

You are all supposedly intelligent adults, why on earth should she not be able to express an opinion. She allowed you to challenge her did she not?

Hammy02 · 10/05/2011 15:55

I don't think she should have aired these views in a lecture. She should be impartial. However I don't think you can say 'she was incorrect in her views about Islam'. She is perfectly entitled to whatever views she wants.

RevoltingPeasant · 10/05/2011 15:56

As a lecturer, can I just say....... Shock !

However, it really depends on the context and how it was said. If she quoted the Q'ran and said, 'Look at such-and-such a passage, how do we think chimes with traditional Western values?' she'd be on thin ice but not quite out-and-out Daily Mail.

If she said something like, 'What if I were concerned about Islam taking over?', she might be trying a Socratic experiment, like Chil said. Sometimes one tries these things and they fall flat.

But if she wasn't doing either of those things, then..... I'd book a one-on-one meeting with the head of department (i.e. her line manager) and raise your concerns. Trust me, they WILL be taken seriously.

And Rob, yeah, she's entitled to an opinion - she's not entitled to use her platform as a lecturer to spout it to groups of students. You get to stand up there and talk because you have expertise in one particular subject, not because you are a London cabbie with opinions on everything from the Royal Wedding to stem cell research Hmm

No offence to cabbies! Grin

londonone · 10/05/2011 15:56

TBH I find it more horrifying that you as a trainee teacher believe certain people, namely teachers, are not "allowed" to hold certain opinions. Scary.

Terraviva · 10/05/2011 15:56

I agree with Chil1234 - Definitely sounds like she was was playing Devil's Advocate to get the class all fired up and discussing the issues. Although she probably probably make it clear at the end of the lecture that that's what she was doing.

I'd talk to her before writing a letter of complaint. But if she really does hold those views and is 'teaching' them to students then you should definitely report her.

RevoltingPeasant · 10/05/2011 15:59

london the OP did not say she wasn't allowed to have the view, just not to use the professional space of a lecture to start spouting.

Original poster
Oakmaiden · 10/05/2011 15:59

I didn't say she was incorrect - I said I explained why I thought she was incorrect.

You really think it is fine for a lecturer to express racist views when teaching a lecture about multiculturalism?

Because I don't....

OP posts:
Birdsgottafly · 10/05/2011 16:00

Sociology is opinion and generalisation. It depends on the subject matter but alot of lectures and writers swerve one way or another. As long as the academic research is there to back up what they are saying then they are allowed to.

There are some subject matters were this isnt the case but actually not many as long as the research exsists. You can get research to prove anything. Are you saying that freedom of speach shouldn't exsist?

RobF · 10/05/2011 16:00

"And Rob, yeah, she's entitled to an opinion - she's not entitled to use her platform as a lecturer to spout it to groups of students."

You don't think lecturers use their platform to spout their opinion to students? Or is it only a problem when their opinion goes against the usual liberal/left line of "multiculturalism is great, Muslims are fab, mass immigration makes our country a better place"?

RobF · 10/05/2011 16:01

"You really think it is fine for a lecturer to express racist views when teaching a lecture about multiculturalism?"

Islam isn't a race.

Birdsgottafly · 10/05/2011 16:01

If she is not saying that Muslims are inferior and do not deserve human rights then she is not being racist. The problem is that the definition of racism is misunderstood. Inciting racial hatred is a different matter, but was she doing that?

NormanTebbit · 10/05/2011 16:02

I think at university level students don't passively absorb what the lecturer tells them. You were right to challenge her, buit if you complain you should be sure that she wasn't just expressing a general argument rather than her personal view. Many of these arguments multiculturalism vs monoculturalism have been debated recently.

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