to be OUTRAGED by this university lecturer???!!!

[Oakmaiden]

So much so that I have lost control of my punctuation???

This is the situation: I was in a lecture this morning about Inclusion in Society. We were discussing racism and multiculturalism. Towards the end of the lecture the lecturer said that she felt that multiculturalism could be taken too far, and that since world domination was a central tenet of the Muslim faith, she thinks immigration should be curbed or she is concerned that we will be "taken over" and all have to live by Islamic laws. I mean WTF??? "World Domination is the central tenet of the Muslim Faith"???

One I had picked my jaw up off the floor I did challenge her fairly firmly. She made me get up in front of the class to tell them all why I thought she was a racist she was incorrect in her assertions. Which frankly I was more than happy to do - and was rather depressed at how many of the class seemed to agree with her.

So - was I wrong to challenge. Actually, don't answer that - no I bloody wasn't. But - should I be taking this further? Should she really be teaching inclusion/sociology to would be teachers if she cannot keep her own odious opinions out of the lectures? Should I write a letter of complaint to the course leader? Or should I just keep my head down?

Birds I do know that opposing views are important, and that people have valid reasons for holding them, however I personally feel about their reasoning. I don't object to discussing those views in an impartial manner.

I just felt she was expressing racist (or whatever) views and being taken at face value. And making no effort to correct the assumption that they were her true beliefs, and thus adding to my suspicion that they were.

And I don't think it is appropriate to end a discussion on multiculturalism with a little personal monologue which validates the holding of intolerant views.

' since world domination was a central tenet of the Muslim faith'

If she meant establishing a universal islamic state, I thought that that was a tenet of islam?

The failing then is surely with the students who didn't chalenge rather than the lecturer who expressed the views. As I said before she didn't seem to object to you challenging her.

If we were discussing religion, then yes possibly.

As I say, context is all. Frankly I cannot see any reason to be discussing personal politics at all in primary school. I guess we are more likely to discuss religion.

I have to go out now (taking my daughter to ballet) - I would like to answer your comment more fully, londonone, as it is challenging the way I am thinking about things. I will have a think about what I think, and get back to you, if that is OK.

no worries!

So the tutor expressed how she feels about a situation to a room full of adults, and then gave the floor to someone who disagreed with her.

Fair play to her for letting you have your say.

And the majority of people do want to curb immigration to some extent, I expect.

I really think, OP, you need to check out the 'devils advocate' hypothesis.
If it's correct, and she was trying to wake people up, she needs to follow up by pointing out how her 'personal opinion' went against the general thrust of the lecture AND of generally accepted theory and practice in UK schools- otherwise she is leaving students with a very confused view.
If it's not correct, you really should speak to the head of department, because this is unprofessonal, and given that these are trainee teachers, there is the double whammy that they are going to be working with children.
If it was me, I'd be tempted to email her with an hypothesis testing question, as that would serve as evidence if needed. EG- hi Ms X, just wanted to check about last weeks lecture, what you had planned if I hadn't taken a different point of view to you at the end? yours, oakmaiden

YANBU. You are there to learn, and that involves being aware of different schools of thought. You are not there to be indoctrinated into one viewpoint. If you are incapable of hearing alternative views to your own, it might be that higher education is not for you. Surely when you sit exams/assessments, you will be expected to know a full range of viewpoints and discuss and critically analyse them, and not just your own?

I suspect that the lecturer was simply trying to get people to think, using their brains, and am surprised that you have such an issue with this.

shallishanti
"If it's not correct, you really should speak to the head of department, because this is unprofessonal, and given that these are trainee teachers, there is the double whammy that they are going to be working with children.
If it was me, I'd be tempted to email her with an hypothesis testing question, as that would serve as evidence if needed. EG- hi Ms X, just wanted to check about last weeks lecture, what you had planned if I hadn't taken a different point of view to you at the end? yours, oakmaiden"

I would counsel against that Oakmaiden, unless you want to earn yourself a reputation as an annoyingly closed minded pain in the backside. And just perhaps it might be best to spend your time on actually passing your course rather than trying to garner "evidence" to put up a case against someone just doing their job.

I'd recommend instead researching the topics raised by reading textbooks. Lectures only give you the starting points, the basic information, from which you are then supposed to expand your field of knowledge by doing your own background reading. At least thats what happended in my subject, surely you also have to this in teacher training, or do they spoon feed you?

I would say this lecturer has done her job well, as she has got you thinking.

I really pity our children if they are going to be taught by such closed minded individuals. Sounds as if some people would be better off working for the Stasi, or fancy themselves thought police as per Orwell's 1984.

I'm sure from what she's said the OP can distinguish between the Stasi and the general consensus among the teaching profession, which is that we serve children best by valuing them all equally regardless of their heritage or family circs, and it's hard to do that if we suspect them of being part of a plot to dominate the world.

If this was at a primary school I'd agree but I get the feeling they were being deliberately provocative. Argue and challenge and if it happens again take action.....I would hope uni's are still place for discussion.

We had lots of lectureres spouting nonsence....we challenged in the lecture and tutorials.

"I'm sure from what she's said the OP can distinguish between the Stasi and the general consensus among the teaching profession, which is that we serve children best by valuing them all equally regardless of their heritage or family circs, and it's hard to do that if we suspect them of being part of a plot to dominate the world."

But the OP is not a child but a student at a place of learning, and should be well able to cope with alternative views to her own without benig OUTRAGED. How can she successfully defend her own viewpoint if she is never exposed to alternative viewpoints?

it's outrageous that a lecturer apparently behaves like a cabbie!

of course, it all depends what she says in the next lecture (benefit of the doubt)

I don't see the cabbie analogy? I really think the OP is utterly overreacting. What is she going to do if she is reading a variety of textbooks and other source materials, and comes across similar or even views even more at odds with her own? Embark on a campaign to correct people's thoughts by writing to the publishers of each?

What she has experienced is perfectly standard fare for any university. It is not a particularly controversial view, unless you take the awkward bus and deem it to be so for the sake of arguement. Academia is filled with similar viewpoints which some people find much more offensive than this, but it is the role of academia to air all possibilities and to attempt to prove or disprove them.

Surely the OP should be using it as motivation to learn more? Just because you don't agree with something, doesn't mean you have the right to silence it! Who wants to live in a society like that?

The central belief of Islam is 'there is only one God and Mohammed is his prophet' -living in an Islamic state may help believers be Muslim, but isn't necessary to be a good Muslim at all. In fact the establishment of an Islamic state isn't even in the top 5 of demands on the faithful.

I really hope she wasn't lecturing you on becoming RE teachers.

though i agree there should always be room for disagrement/interpretation outright misinformation doesn't cut it. (consider the Christian side: The Gospel demands the first, radical, revolution:discuss....lots of you might disagree.)

OP - what would you do if you were presented with the following question in an exam or marked assignment?

"Multiculturalism can be taken too far. Since world domination is a central tenet of the Muslim faith, immigration should be curbed out of concern that we will be "taken over" and all have to live by Islamic laws. Critically analyse, with reference to researched materials where appropriate".

OP, I'm fairly outraged that you are outraged. If you just wanted your views confirmed then you should have stayed at home and read the Guardian rather than going to university. If you report your lecturer, she may well get in trouble or get told to stick her neck in, but that would not be a good thing. There is quite a problem at universities (at least here) that it is simply not possible to say or research certain things and anyone who doesn't hold bog standard lefty views feels excluded from the university. This is a terrible thing not just for academic freedom but for research and knowledge generally. Universities should not just be there to reinforce the prejudices and principles of the middle classes but to actually teach and challenge them.

As for what your lecturer said, there are plenty of academic arguments about the flaws of multiculturalism - do a journal search and you will find some.

YABU - the whole point of University is to challenge ideas and opinions. You did well to challenge her and she did well to push you to explain yourself. University would be missing its mark if everyone had to worry about being PC with every statement.

YANBU

Doesn't Evangelical Christianity have something of the same idea?
Claiming the world for Jesus? Including law making, and discrimination against those that fall outside the tenents of the faith?

HLimbo, the cases you cite regarding DV & the use of shariah is in the instance where the couple want to stay together.

The perpetrator in this instance probably wouldnt be punished in English law either as it sounds like the wives did not want to press charges, they wanted to still remain in the marriage. So the shariah council provided counselling & DVI training.

Having personally been thro the English courts for DV, I can tell you the perpetrator doesn't automatically get punished for his behaviour. Ex certainly didn't & I was dragged thro courts at considerable financial and emotional cost to prove I was not lying, regardless of the fact that I had police records, eye witnesses & more to back me up. As he didn't kill me or almost that he walks away because he is otherwise a fine upstanding citizen!

And whoever said the Arabs pay to build mosques in england, that's not true. Local mosques are paid for by the congregation, skilled attendees of the mosque offer their expertise for free & do eg the wiring, plumbing etc as an act of charity. Saudi Arabia has nothing to do with th local mosques in England unless the attendees originate from that country.

The Super-Mosque that was planned in London was funded by Saudi oil money. I can't believe that's the only one.

The Arab and Islamic studies centre at my university (which is considered the best research university in Australia) was funded by the Saudi govt.

You will also find that there are nutritional courses funded by the fast/junk food owners. Health research paid for by tobacco companies, so nothing new there. Lets not go into what the baby formula companies fund.

The super mosque is an acception, it's supposed to be a centre for learning not just a local worship place, there's meant to be a library and similar incorporated in to it so the Saudi government are donating money.

Islamic studies bit in universities are paid for by overseas donors SOAS has an Islamic studies wing and library with ancient Islamic artifacts donated by I think the king of Bahrain (or similar), otherwise there wouldn't be such detailed Islamic studies departments.

Local mosques aren't, its very easy for the congregation to pool enough money together to buy a building and convert it to a mosque, charity is a tenet of Islam, it's not dependent on donations by the big hearted we have to pay a certain percentage of our wealth in charity each year, also as congregational prayer is a tenet of Islam the local muslim population will dig deep to ensure there's a mosque in their vicinity otherwise they have to travel miles to go pray.