to be OUTRAGED by this university lecturer???!!!

[Oakmaiden]

So much so that I have lost control of my punctuation???

This is the situation: I was in a lecture this morning about Inclusion in Society. We were discussing racism and multiculturalism. Towards the end of the lecture the lecturer said that she felt that multiculturalism could be taken too far, and that since world domination was a central tenet of the Muslim faith, she thinks immigration should be curbed or she is concerned that we will be "taken over" and all have to live by Islamic laws. I mean WTF??? "World Domination is the central tenet of the Muslim Faith"???

One I had picked my jaw up off the floor I did challenge her fairly firmly. She made me get up in front of the class to tell them all why I thought she was a racist she was incorrect in her assertions. Which frankly I was more than happy to do - and was rather depressed at how many of the class seemed to agree with her.

So - was I wrong to challenge. Actually, don't answer that - no I bloody wasn't. But - should I be taking this further? Should she really be teaching inclusion/sociology to would be teachers if she cannot keep her own odious opinions out of the lectures? Should I write a letter of complaint to the course leader? Or should I just keep my head down?

The whole Sharia court thing is a separate issue.

Just out of interest was the main thrust of the lecture about everyone's views, cultures, religions etc being equal and valid?

IMO the lecturer's problem is not that she has ambivalent views on multiculturalism, and I think she should be able to voice those views too.

The problem as I perceive it is that she argued for treating a certain group of people (Muslims) differently than other people. Based not on their individual situations, but purely on their affiliation to the group. Never mind that this affiliation may be expressed as nothing more than on which day they worship, or even exist purely on paper. In essence, she argued that if you are a Muslim, you should not be allowed to immigrate, because some Muslims take the idea of gaining world dominance seriously (just as some Christians take the idea of a holy Christian war seriously - see the Quiverfull movement for example. Does that mean that all Christians should be stopped from immigrating?). And treating people different due to their belonging to a particular group - that's a -ism for sure. That's like treating all women as if they were going to go an maternity leave soon just because some women do go on maternity leave. And no, whereas difference of opinion is ok, voicing racist/anti-islam/anti-gay/patriarchal opinions in a public and educational setting is not ok, imo.

Considering the number of women who are killed at the hands of violent partners in the UK, using sharia in domestic violence cases resulting in nothing being done to address the situation is a disgrace, a travesty of their right to live in safety.

How can we criticise the lack of womens rights in places like saudi arabia, when we allow the same rules to be applied in our own country?!

it must have been a set up. I used to do this kind of thing at lot before I realised that it always backfired as students are so conditioned into believing what their lecturers tell them

I won't defend Sharia to the hilt, because it clearly has some failings, just as any judicial system. However, I think before you cast the first stone, as it were, you need to have an awareness of the basis of these concepts.

The division of an estate favouring men is tempered by the responsibility that falls on Muslim men to provide for their female relatives if widowed or unmarried, for example.

I'm wondering the same as londonone..... Did she spend the whole hour reciting the BNP manifesto or, prior to the remark, had she spent most of the time (as the name of the lecture suggests) teaching you about social inclusion in a very postive, affirming kind of way?

The main thrust of the lecture was about how children are judged by other children on the basis of their race, due to the message those children have got through their families, the media and society. We touched on the historical background to racism (ie the slave trade and the Crusades - actually that was me suggesting that as a root for the problem). :) We talked about more recent immigration and people thinking that they have all come over to take our jobs, and the unrealistic perception people have about the size of the problem (ie ethnic minorities really ARE minorities, and not on the verge of overtaking the white population). That was about it. Not really very deep stuff. Our lectures/classes are fairly crap, actually. It probably is a thicko university....

Just wondering what oakmaiden will do when she has to teach a student who is a card carrying BNP member. Will she challenge them or "include" them?

religion is a different and separate thing to race.

I think the lecturer has an interesting point on the issue of sharia law (which is what she was refering to). However she could have explored the issue in a more neutral way that let students form their own opinions based on the facts presented.

"she argued for treating a certain group of people (Muslims) differently than other people. Based not on their individual situations, but purely on their affiliation to the group"

• this is exactly what allowing sharia law does. it allows muslim women to be treated in a less favourable way, just because they are part of a religious group.

FWIW, I'm with you regarding the opportunity for wifebeaters to have their hearings in front of a Sharia court - crimes against the person should not be under the remit of what effectively is a tribunal.

So, after all that about the slave trade, the crusades, unrealistic perceptions and judging people incorrectly on the basis of race and background.... your lecturer gave you a dose of Daily Mail-like vitriol to gee things up and everyone, bar you, just sat there and took it as gospel

Can you not see what's wrong with this picture?

chil - tells you a lot about the quality of trainee teachers IMO!

londonone I would hope both. I would challenge their political beliefs, but outside that area I would hope I would include them as much as anyone.

Unless the lecturer was personally advocating exclusion of ethnic groups, I can't see what you've got to complain about - unless it's the fact that the majority of your peers weren't swayed by your arguments?

Expressing concern at the level of immigration and the effect that it has had on the existing infrastructure is not racist, nor is it unreasonable to posit the view or the fear that it is possible that this Sceptred Isle may one day be subject to Islamic/Sharia law if the majority of the population ascribe to the Muslim faith.

Haven't you got an essay to write or something more productive to do than waste valuable time finding fault with lecturers?

TBH, if it takes this little for you to become outraged I seriously fear for your blood pressure when you get out into the real world.

And to those who encouraging you to complain about this trivial matter; beware of the laws of attraction.

londonone- when i used 'of course' i was thinking of historically and globally, not just the situation that we have in the UK at the moment. I also was taking for granted that exploitation was not taking place.

Absolutely. It's very boring standing in front of a room of people that don't care what you're saying and aren't particularly listening. How depressing for the poor woman that she said something totally contrary to what she'd just spent so long explaining ..... and only one person spotted it!

oakmaiden - why would you challenge their political beliefs? Would you challenge a muslim students beliefs, or a catholic student? How do you think that would go down with their parents assuming they are of the same faith?

I must confess I am a little shocked that consensus of opinion seems to be that it is OK to be racist/islamist/religionist and to express that as a lecturer discussing inclusion with their students.

Oakmaiden-we wasn't there so don't know how it was put. But if the Op goes to the library she will see side by side opposing views on every academic subject except a very few.

londonone I guess it depends on context. If someone said they were a member of the BNP I might ask why, and if they were old enough might discuss their rationale with them. I wouldn't say "You shouldn't be a BNP member", just like I wouldn't say you shouldn't be Catholic or Muslim.

But I would challenge any racist comments or behaviour. And even if a parent did object to that challenge, I would be fairly confident that the school and governors would support me.

Where I live there is a shortage of school places and homes, there are stories about water shortages, there are no jobs for the youth, the economic forecast remains bleak. So does me wanting the government to curb immigration for these reasons make me racist?

Does my strong opposition to sharia law being implemented in the UK make me racist?

On what grounds exactly would you make a complaint against the lecturer?

Your lecturer is almost certainly not racist/islamophobic/anti-religion. Do you not see at all how a controversial remark that runs against the grain of the rest of the lecture but which mirrors the view of some people in society could be used as a jumping-off point for discussion rather than being representative of her own views?

Cook-because she spoke against one particular group as though they posed a threat by exsisting. A curb on immigration is a blanket curb.

Interesting oakmaiden, would yoou discuss rationale of a student being a muslim or catholic?