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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that nursery teachers should be given more than minwage?

159 replies

rachie2011 · 07/05/2011 21:42

I actually am at home at the moment with my baby. But i will be reaturning to work soon its soooo sad that i have had to go for a cleaning job instead of returing to my job in a nursery which i have done for 6 years and loved every min of it. Fully trainned and adore every second of nursery work but the sad fact is my wage is the lowest it could be and and being alone means i cannot afford to do it. I have had to take a cleaning job which pays double so that i can provide for my baby but i think it is sooo unfair :(

OP posts:
TiggyD · 08/05/2011 10:59

What if you were single Noddle? Could you still work with children?

Ishani · 08/05/2011 11:00

Well as I said earlier I find that for all the qualification plenty haven't the common sense they were born with anyway, all those "degrees" and they don't know that leaving one member of staff with 9 under ones isn't a good idea, especially when the mothers are around to witness it.

Ishani · 08/05/2011 11:00

No purepurple I have learnt that most nurseries are shit and the dog wouldn't be allowed to go to some of them.

noodle69 · 08/05/2011 11:00

Yes plenty of my friends do, they just live in house shares or bedsits. I would do it if I was single to.

Bottleofbeer · 08/05/2011 11:01

If you want decent nursery nurses ask for ones who trained with cache rather than NVQ. I chose cache over NVQ because a cache candidate has to provide written assignments that prove she has at the very least taken in and understood the role as well as worked within the industry. Now there are excellent NVQ qualified staff but IME the NVQ students were used as general dogsbodies within their placements and never had to physically prove anything - they were simply observed when an assessor could be bothered showing up to assess them in the workplace. I know a lot of nurseries prefer cache qualified to NVQ for this reason. If he/she qualified with cache you know they're literate at the very least. Believe me, the level FOUR qualified room leader at my placement could barely string a sentence together. She'd never have qualified with cache.

Bottleofbeer · 08/05/2011 11:04

Ishani, breaching ratios is gross misconduct and should ofsted land unexpectedly on their doorstep and see this they are within their rights to shut them down there and then.

purepurple · 08/05/2011 11:05

But having more staff would push up the nursery fees and most parents are not willing to pay more, so what are they supposed to do?
If most nurseries are shit then isn't it about time we changed that, by say, raising qualifications and making it more professional?

Ishani · 08/05/2011 11:09

But they've already introduced those standards and still what's lacking is in the individuals. I would suggest by making it a requirement that people are degree qualified it's attracting the wrong type of person, same with nursing in many cases.
The rules don't matter if the individual staff don't adhere to them.
Noddle69 sounds fantastic, more like her would solve all the problems.

Bottleofbeer · 08/05/2011 11:12

There are no buts about it purplepurple, ratios are a legal requirement. Like I said, breaching them is enough to close a nursery down there and then if caught by an ofsted inspector.

You want a good nursery (lots of nursery nurses are damn good at what they do and often train for years - it is one year per level so you get a level four and she's trained for three years, the same as a nurse would have done) you check out ofsted reports, you land on their doorstep and ask to be shown around - a good one will welcome you in there and then and not ask you to come back later because they have nothing to hide. The child's keyworker will come out and visit your child at home to help prepare them for nursery by allowing the child to get to know them in their own environment. They're stil paid peanuts for this though.

If you raise qualifications even higher then you're back to square one, highly qualified people refusing to work for min wage and why should they?

RitaMorgan · 08/05/2011 11:13

What is "the wrong type of person"?

Bottleofbeer · 08/05/2011 11:14

Ok, so let's demand degree levels, are you prepared to pay astronomical nursery fees for this then?

TiggyD · 08/05/2011 11:14

So being a childcare worker means never having somewhere to live on your own? If you're in you 20s maybe, but in you 40s and 50s? Not much of a career is it?

[recognises purepurple from another site and waves]

I'd like to see a chain of nurseries open that would pay well and have fantastic staff. They would charge the most but I think they could still get enough customers who genuinely do want the best for their child and who can afford it.(the ones who pay £4.50 for a bloody cupcake). I'd like the quality of nurseries more obviously linked to the cost of them.

Megatron · 08/05/2011 11:15

Ishani Would it not be truer to say that most nurseries that you have knowledge of are, in your opinion, shit? Unless you are an Ofsted inspector, which you may be I have no idea, surely you would have knowledge of very few nurseries. I think you're being pretty unfair on those of us who choose to work in childcare and it's a shame that you have such a low opinion of nursery nurses in general.

lynehamrose · 08/05/2011 11:15

I don't think its that parents aren't WILLING to pay more. Its that they cannot AFFORD to pay more. My view is that when you are returning to work, you pay for the best care you can possibly afford. The only cases I've ever seen where parents are driven by trying to save money, is where they use grandparents for free childcare. When you pay, you are driven totally by the quality of Care and what each setting has to offer.
I would love to see nursery staff paid more, but I repeat, where does that money come from? And you have to take into account supply and demand; at the end of the day there are more people around who want to care for children than want to clean houses. I struggled to find a cleaner for 3 hours a week at £10 an hour, yet when my ds's were younger , I had my pick of childminders in the area. A lot of mums are quite keen to earn as a cm, as it's the only job you can do in your own home while not having to pay childcare yourself. When I had both boys at the cm, she would have had more take-home pay than I did! She was earning, while not having to pay any childcare for her own dd. Not that I'm criticising her for that- just pointing out what its like for working parents. And she was significantly cheaper than nursery- I paid her £55 a day .

Bottleofbeer · 08/05/2011 11:18

The wrong type of person is the one who doesn't even like kids, believe me, I've seen it.

It's the whole sterotype of the nursery nurse doing zilch but changing nappies, they walk into it through NVQ where they qualify simply because they completed the hours. Ask them to do a child observation and possibly write up an IEP for a child with potential problems and they stand about with their finger up their arses because you might as well have just asked them to recite the theory of evolution IE they have no idea, yet it's part of the NN's role.

Megatron · 08/05/2011 11:18

Having said that I think nursery nurses should be paid better, it's also true that before you go into it, you know the pay is crap. I went from a very well paid career to being a nursery nurse because I wanted to work with children. You don't go into it for the money, but it would be nice to be a bit more appreciated I guess.

TiggyD · 08/05/2011 11:18

It's not "one level per year". You can get a level 3 NVQ in less than a year. You have to bear in mind the nursery who pays for the training usually want the person qualified as soon as possible, and that one of the people judging whether they are competent is the nursery themselves.

TiggyD · 08/05/2011 11:20

[grin]@bottlebeer Absolutely!

Bottleofbeer · 08/05/2011 11:22

TiggyD, have I not said on at least three occassions that cache is better than NVQ for this very reason? the cache candidate is independently tested by the PLA. They qualify to either pass, merit or distinction and their pass level is clearly noted on their certificate of qualification, they've proved they understand the job academically as well as practically.

Each cache levels takes one academic year, you don't just jump in at level three.

purepurple · 08/05/2011 11:37

No, katymac can't give you a job at her new nursery, it's my job Grin

I couldn't do my job if I didn't have DH's wage. My mortgage is 2x what I take home every month.
I do it because I love it and because I'm bloody good at it. When I first started I was a volunteer and didn't get paid a penny, so when I started on £3 an hour it seemed like a fortune.

Bottleofbeer, if there were 3 members of staff and 12 children who are 2, what would happen if a member of staff had to leave the room? They are still in the building, so are they included in the ratios or not?

KatyMac · 08/05/2011 11:39

Guys - stop arguing over me & help

Bottleofbeer · 08/05/2011 11:49

Purepurple, you need to cover yourself even just for a member of staff to use the toilet. You'd call in a manager maybe, just somebody who is free to cover it.

You cannot have an understaffed room even for a couple of minutes. Ofsted are really strict about it.

Original poster
rachie2011 · 08/05/2011 15:39

lynehamrose

Like i said im putting her in a church chreche it costs 30 a week which is nothing compared to other care im lucky for that being avaible to me by friends :)

OP posts:
Original poster
rachie2011 · 08/05/2011 15:47

Thank you for all the coments :) Glad some of you think it too :)

OP posts:
Original poster
rachie2011 · 08/05/2011 15:50

I did CACHE level 2 and the DCE level 3 when i first started then i did 4 and 5 NVQs I do not belive there is much differents between the courses well about from the higher you go the harder your assigments and tracking is but all kinds of learning are set out the same just is one is in a full time job and the other is full time college great either way :)

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