To think that nursery teachers should be given more than minwage?

[rachie2011]

I actually am at home at the moment with my baby. But i will be reaturning to work soon its soooo sad that i have had to go for a cleaning job instead of returing to my job in a nursery which i have done for 6 years and loved every min of it. Fully trainned and adore every second of nursery work but the sad fact is my wage is the lowest it could be and and being alone means i cannot afford to do it. I have had to take a cleaning job which pays double so that i can provide for my baby but i think it is sooo unfair :(

Too right they should, I spent two years training - it was a cache course which expects written assignments as well as placement, so why can I walk into a job stacking shelves and earn exactly the same?

Qualified but don't work in childcare for this very reason.

You think parents are so thick that they don't know about their own children, that nursery nurses know better ? That's where it's all gone so wrong in my opinion parents have been undermined by these "professionals" and now don't trust their own judgement and instincts any more, which are usually correct.
9 times out of 10 the parents are pushing for support and told you can't have it not the other way around.

And I do appreciate nursery nurses are allowed aspirations, they are in the wrong job if they think nappy changing is going to provide them with any sort of future though aren't they ?

ishani, just because you are a parent doesn't make you an expert in child development or spotting potential problems.
Just because it's children, doesn't mean every parent is an expert. You might be the expert on your own child but that's about all.
I cook every day, doesn't make me a chef. I can make my own clothes, doesn't kame me a clothes designer.

I think even ordinary children from ordinary families do benefit from having better qualified staff who have an understanding of child development, pedagogy, a bit of psychology - who are literate and numerate and dedicated to their role. Especially as many children spend the majority of their waking hours in the care of nursery workers. I have seen the huge difference between the educated, interested practitioner and the unqualified 18 year old who is working in a nursery because they have a vague idea that babies are cute - both as a parent using a nursery and as a nursery worker.

The only way to raise wages and standards is with increased government subsidies though.

Actually it does make you an expert in THAT particular child.

"9 times out of 10 the parents are pushing for support and told you can't have it not the other way around"

This is simply not true.

Ishani - I have helped many families get the support they require. Its not about being 'better' than the parent. If the observations are completed in the home and in setting and put forward to the NHS/appropriate staff then support is obtained faster ime. Our nursery have helped plenty of parents and they now have the support they need when starting reception.

agree ashani, I shouldn't have used 'might' in that context

While I don't like the way ishani's put it, I agree with the point that you cant compare the nhs with a private set up. We all pay tax ( and lots of it!) for the state health and education systems, but I don't think you can expect parents paying privately for childcare to pay any more than they do now. The idea of government subsidies is wonderful- gosh, I would have loved some help paying my childcare! - but the govt has run out of money if anyone hadn't noticed.

Katymac - do you, or have you , used private day nursery for your children(sorry I don't know if you have any or what ages)? There is no hidden agenda to my question, I am genuinely interested to know what people who are actually in the business, as a nursery worker or thinking of setting up, think about it. Because honestly I think you would struggle to get parents paying even more than they do now. I would have loved to send my boys to our local nursery, but could not afford £80 per day, all year round-out of taxed income of course- and if id sent ds1 I would still have had to pay all through my ML for ds2 or risk losing his place. In the end I went for a cm which worked out better as the rate was more affordable and I paid for what I used rather than the set times.
I think nurseries are usually great and I would love to see better pay for nursery staff - but WHO will pay for it?

Rita I'm not saying there aren't benefits, but are they required well that's for the parents to decide when choosing a nursery isn't it.
Ask the parents what they want their money spent on and it's equipment and facilities.
My child went to a nursery which was probably brilliant at supporting families with problems and spotting all sorts but they fed the children the cheapest of the cheap food to keep down costs and so it was clear I was paying for very qualified staff and not decent food or toys, so we left.
Both have a place but it's not across the board so as a NN you have to ask yourself where do I want to work, in middle class nappy valley for min wage with straight forward families who don't require paperwork coming out of their ears or somewhere else where you'll earn every penny from the government subsidies because the families cannot afford to pay any more.

I have seen plenty of money wasted in the public sector in my time when working in different roles and I think some of it should have been redirected to nursery staff and other carers.

I would rather work for the minimum wage and help the most vulnerable families and make a difference in peoples lives. I would prefer it though if societys opinion of me wasnt that I was thick, uneducated, unmotivated, chose this because I am capable of nothing else etc.

Personally I would always choose a nursery with well paid, well qualified staff and a low staff turnover for my own child. Luckily at the CC nursery he goes too he has that - and the food, building and equipment is great too.

I would also choose to work in a CC or school over a private nursery - the work may be more challenging (interesting) at times but the pay is better. And every child generates masses of paperwork these days, whether they have any additional needs or not.

lynehamrose, my DH is a home-husband & I used him, then a nursery for education. However I got into childcare in 2003 when DD was 5; with the knowledge I have now DD should never have gone there

If I were choosing now given free choice I would choose a childminding setting rather than either a nursery or childminder; well I would it's what I run . With less choice I would be thinking about the ethos of the nursery or childminder, probably leaning towards a childminder for the younger child and a combination for an older one.

I actively avoid employing the pleasant girl who can read a nice story as she is effectively useless as an employee; I employ people (men & women) who remain in childcare long term despite the low wages & who are pleasantly surprised at the rates I pay

This is half the problem, people assume there is nothing more to the nursery nurse's job than to change nappies.

Your nursery nurse willhave studied child development, child protection, will be qualified in paediatric first aid, health and safety to name but a few.

There are staff who are good that work in childcare because they passionately believe it's a valuable and enjoyable job. There are also staff who work in childcare because they're not very bright or reliable but are willing to work for little money. Some nurseries will have anybody who turns up for an interview who will work for minimum wage.
Good nursery nurses want good money and will tend to work for nurseries who pay the most which will mean they charge the most. In short, you get what you pay for.

Give us a job Katymac!

TiggyD - That isnt always true and I am quite insulted by that. I work for £6 an hour as that is locally the rate of pay. We are part of Surestart but are now private however we have a Childrens Centre teacher and still come under them. I live for my role and it is a passion and I know many staff working for the same rates who do the same.

"as a NN you have to ask yourself where do I want to work, in middle class nappy valley for min wage with straight forward families who don't require paperwork coming out of their ears or somewhere else where you'll earn every penny from the government subsidies because the families cannot afford to pay any more."
I work with children because I want to make a difference in their lives and having a degree and not a NVQ level 2 means I can do that more effectively, even in "middle class nappy valley"
Disadvantaged children can be found in every nursery and it really has nothing to do with class or how much money their parent earns.
I agree with noodle "I would rather work for the minimum wage and help the most vulnerable families and make a difference in peoples lives. I would prefer it though if societys opinion of me wasnt that I was thick, uneducated, unmotivated, chose this because I am capable of nothing else etc."

Katymac - of course that girl/woman is useless now because if the demands of the role the question is when we are talking about baby's are the demands and qualifications ridiculous.

If you wish to produce moral, wide thinking, experimental, adventurous and balanced adults they must be cared for as children by moral, wide thinking, experimental, adventurous and balanced adults; imo

Whether or not the paperwork and statutory guidance are considered positive or not by complying with them you fulfil part of that statement.

But I wouldn't want my child cared for my someone who couldn't understand the reasoning behind the first aid or child protection course she attended, or who knew ADHD or AS was just poor parenting, or who was certain the allergies that Sarah has aren't real and a bit of chocolate won't hurt her.

Ishani, a trainee nursery nurse gets it shoved down her throat about 50 times during the course that the parent is the expert in the child. It's called parents in partnership. So maybe if you clue yourself in on what a person has to do/know to qualify you'd stop making such daft statements. Nurseries follow the foundation stage curriculum, it's not about 16 year old girls changing nappies and reading stories. The keyworker is trained to spot signs of developmental problems. Shocker!

Yes Noodle, many staff work in lower paid jobs because as you said, they "live for my role and it is a passion". Or as I said "There are staff who are good that work in childcare because they passionately believe it's a valuable and enjoyable job". But when you have to pay £550 for rent, then poll tax, insurances, water, heating, running a car, etc you might find it impossible to work like that.

I have a mortgage of £655. I just get on with it and have to make sacrifices to work in the role. My husband is on £6.50 an hour to but I do it because I love it and I want to make a difference. It means no new clothes, or fancy things but it is more than worth it

isani, do you really value your children so little that you are willing to leave them in their most important formative years with a young girl who knows nothing about child development or pedagogy, whose only qualification is that she is 'nice'?