To think that nursery teachers should be given more than minwage?

[rachie2011]

I actually am at home at the moment with my baby. But i will be reaturning to work soon its soooo sad that i have had to go for a cleaning job instead of returing to my job in a nursery which i have done for 6 years and loved every min of it. Fully trainned and adore every second of nursery work but the sad fact is my wage is the lowest it could be and and being alone means i cannot afford to do it. I have had to take a cleaning job which pays double so that i can provide for my baby but i think it is sooo unfair :(

Compo, yes they did and thay went on to be the parents of the children we are dealing with today. It's a vicious cycle and we (underpaid nursery nurses) are now the radar. We are the front line. Which is why we need better recognition and a pay scale that recognises our professionalism.

I think the job has changed so much and un-necessarily inflated peoples expectations of it, personally I want a nice girl to read my child stories and give them their lunch, watch over them playing, change them if they get dirty/wet and give them a cuddle if they fall over.

Minimum wage is perfectly acceptable for that role, who on earth decided you need a degree to work in a nursery ?

But as you say Ishani, the job has changed.

Before the nice "girl" reads the stories there is a whole load of planning paperwork to do in order to ensure that the story fits with both the curriculum and the child's development...

what I'd love to know is why they are paid so little.

In my DS's nursery, full time is about 1200 a month. The ratio of staff to children is between 1:3 and 1:7, probably average 1:4.

ok so 4800 a month comes in per staff member. They earn (before tax) about 12-16K. (1-1.3K/month)

Where does the other 3.5K go? I can only assume it's the managers and the company that owns the nursery... Yes I know it's all oversimplified (we'd need to work in costs of food, heating, lighting, premises, insurance, consumables, subsidies to govt hours and the amount of employers NI etc) but surely the extras can't add up to 3.5K for every four full-time children? Every month?

What we need is more cooperative or partnership nurseries where fees are divided up among the staff who actually work there instead of going back to base, as it were.

Ishani - It all depends on the group you are working with. If you work with families where the child is at risk of abuse and that means you spend lots of time writing observations and compiling reports for Social Services over decisions on a child then I believe you should get more than the minimum wage.

Also when you are dealing with children with Speech and Language difficulties and have to do countless observations and referrals for that child. Same goes for noticing different special needs and ensuring the child gets the adequate 1 to 1 support in place before school.

That is the reality for many nursery staff.

moonbells would you like a copy of the cashflow forecasts for the nursery I can't afford to open? It certainly shows where the money goes

I understand that Jemima - but did anyone ask the parent s who are paying the bills if they want to pay the wages of somebody doing piles of paperwork, of photographing your child's every movement, of having a curriculum for the under 1's, no they did not and so you have the situation where whilst I am sure they are worth more money and will have student debt too, but I wouldn't pay their worth.

Yes noddle69, that's entirely different but for an ordinary family in an everyday nursery minimum wage should be fine.

Our nursery charges £30 a day for all nappies, 3 meals freshly cooked and 10 hours of care so I understand how they cannot afford to pay more than £6 an hour to staff. I dont understand it though when I see some of the high rates parents pay on here why those nurseries cannot pay more money to staff.

Sorry x post its not seen as entirely different though Ashani. Same goes for carers of the elderly and the disabled in my area most scrape the minimum wage but it is very important work

I would still be interested to know what the op is paying for childcare now. I know cleaning is better paid than being a nursery worker (supply and demand and all that-looking after children is a more attractive job than scrubbing someones loo) but its still not massively well paid.

She will get help with tax credits Lyneham Rose I would expect

But how do you think they identify the children who need extra support?

Many of the referrals arise from the observations etc carried out within nurseries.

You can't just look at a baby and say "Oh they'll be OK, they are an ordinary family in an every day nursery so they won't need SALT help/ be abused/ etc etc" These things can evolve over time.

ishani, ordinary families in ordinary nurseries? No such thing.
I work in an ordinary nursery and have to deal with

children with diagnosed additional needs and work with speech therapists, area inclusion teachers, support workers, physiotherapists, all who need reports and meetings and endless paperwork
childen with undiagnosed additional needs that require support, endless observations and dealing with parents who are in denial but need support and guidance
children who have been abused, sometimes sexually, that need referring to Social Services, and require evidence and meetings whilst supporting the child and dealing with the parents who threaten to kill you
children who are in care and have social workers and case meetings who are then placed back with their families who all need guidance and support
children whose parents don't speak English but you still have to communicate with them about important issues
children dealing with divorce/separation/bereavement/domestic violence
All in a day's work. It's not just a case of being able to sit down and read a nice story.

Maybe one nursery nurse needs to be educated then to spot these things, but they can't all be degree educated with specialist skills, we need some nice caring people who just want to play with the children too.
In our local nursery everyone was level 3 qualified and they sat around talking whilst the children played, had no common sense, were rarely holding the babies. They probably were too good for the job but who's fault is that ?

Sure purepurple I can totally understand that but if you as a family have none of those issues then I am not prepared to pay more for nursery to deal with those who do have those problems all of which need dealing with through their wages.
And there lies the problem the expectations are too high.

Ishani I dont think parents should. Our parents pay £30 a day and I think thats more than enough. I think it should be part subsidised by the government. Its peoples lives we are dealing with and the experiences of these children can affect them for the rest of their life. If we didnt have nurseries many more would slip through the net. I have had children in my care removed who have been very severely beaten, sexual abused etc. I think if the staff were not adequately educated and these cases had been missed or dealt with incorrectly then the child could have slipped through the net.

The government have got all the trained staff though as they promised us higher wages and professionalisation of the industry. However now we put the work in but they have removed the support. I dont think nursery staff are asking for much I would be happy for even 50p more an hour but it wont happen.

Ishani do you also object to paying for say 'heart surgery' being done on the NHS as your family doesn't need it

Because that seems to be your argument 'if my family doesn't need it so I shouldn't pay for it'

I may have misunderstood

But by the government paying for/subsidising it families will pay more anyway in taxes

when it's a private day nursery then yes that's right if my family do not require all this nonsense then I am not paying for it.
Abuse a side i'm afraid if your child has developmental delays that is for you as a parent to source whatever is required I am not prepared to pay additional fees to have somebody on red alert for everything that could possibly go wrong, I'd rather that money was spent on baby yoga frankly.

Or if your child went to an ordinary nursery and developed an additional need; well she couldn't get any help or support for it as she doesn't go to that sort of nursery

noodle69, I agree. In Sweden the government sudsidises nursery fees to the extent of about 90% and most staff are graduates. I would happily take 50p an hour more. It's really not about the wages, it's about the recognition that what I do is worthwhile and important. After all, investing in children should be the number one priority for government.

Correct KatyMac because it's my job as a parent to resolve that need.

Ishani, the nice girl of whom you speak was not simply put on the planet to provide you and your family with low cost childcare you know. Inconvenient as it is, she is allowed to have aspirations, plans and dreams of her own and should have high expectations. I hope that the higher level qualifications will eventually lead to higher professional esteem, and these workers refusing to do this work for the minimum wage.

Interestingly, in my experience, those who feel nursery nurses should earn no more than the minimum wage think nothing of spending hundreds of pounds on haircuts and clothes for themselves. We undervalue nursery nurses because we don't value children, which is a very sad reflection of our society.

PP that's it isnt it

Ishani how would you know your child had an issue if someone wasn't trained to recognise it?