or are UP parents really nuts?

[FunnysInTheGarden]

I mean talk about making all your lives difficult....

Am ready BTW for the UP parents cries of dissent [cgrin]

"But they have done it. What happens if they do it again? Do you just say "I told you before, that isnt nice"???"

Squeaky Well, yes, they've done it but that's true regardless of your approach unless we're in a Minority Report situation or I've misread what you meant. When you say what if she does it again, do you mean immediately or ever? If the former, I'm not sure she has ever hit someone again immediately - like I said, I tend to move her away from the other child anyway, plus I think it's usually some temporary frustration. If the latter then we just do the same again: remove her and tell her it isn't a kind thing to do.

She is going through a biting phase at the moment, though only with DH and I fortunately. We tell her to stop, that it isn't nice and try to resolve whatever it is that is making her angry (not necessarily just by giving in!).

I realise that I'm a wanker but this thread is making me think of A Clockwork Orange ...

With teenagers it is very simple, however you have to fight the whole 'I know best' thing. Curfews are easy as we live in a city centre, it is not safe to walk the streets at night so she needs to be in before dark, and if she goes out she needs to go somewhere, no hang round a park. This is discussed and agreed, she knows what's what and curfew times are agreed, and if she is going to be late she lets me know, constant texts and updates etc.

With her room - have come to the conclusion that if she wants her room to be a pigsty she can. As long as she keeps the rest of the house tidy, and she does her share of the chores as all members of this house do, she can live out her Rik from the Young Ones fantasies in her bedroom.

Homework - it's her homework, it is up to her to be mature enough to schedule revision and complete her homework. It is her life - if she fails her exams she will not get into college and get into her chosen career. I am not standing over her saying 'do your maths'. She has got to learn to manage her own workload, she is nearly an adult now, I am not doing it for her. This has worked well - she is a conscientous student and is on course for good grades at GCSE.

Strangely enough, she is hoping to join the RAF at 18. She goes to cadets and LOVES the strict discipline, and the marching and drill and being yelled at. Her bedroom is a mess yet she spends hours polishing shoes and ensuring her uniform is correct, and when she goes on camp gets high points for her immaculately made bed!

does anyone want to send me a copy of the book? sounds interestin, i think i try and do this but sometimes dont....

but i like the sound of it, i still think my mum doesnt love me when shes annoyed with me,

I don't tend to reward or punish but based on DD's record with music practice and looking after her hamster I would say I practise 'ineffective' rather than 'unconditional' parenting.

Any hints?

Actually, it has just occurred to me that we are currently rewarding/bribing DD with chocolate buttons when she pees in the potty. Doesn't seem to be having much effect though plus next door's 7 yo told me she was "shocked" that I was rewarding DD with chocolate for piddles

tabulahrasa Then it would be time to start administering mild electric shocks ... I would keep on doing it and keep her away from the dog as much as possible. Better parents than me might have better ideas though ...

MillyR Actually that's a good way of thinking about it, although there has been a certain amount of 'if you brush your teeth then you get another sticker' about it! Maybe I'll change the emphasis of the chart.

I had the same with my cat, Tabulah - I made a safe space for the cat away from where DS could reach (might be harder with a dog but perhaps a crate/baby gate on door of particular room?) but there were times when the cat clearly didn't want to move but DS wanted to play anyway. Cat was stubbornly staying put, DS was stubbornly going back several million times. I was getting to the end of my tether and not knowing what to do at all. I considered time out but having never used it I wasn't sure how to make him stay there and I wasn't sure he wouldn't just run straight back to the cat as soon as he got out, taking up more of my time.

Then instead of removing DS I had the idea of removing the cat. When he went up to him wanting to cuddle him and poke him and generally mistreat him, I took the cat away and sat him on my lap, then stroked him gently (modelling the behaviour I wanted him to do) then most of the time DS would cry at the cat being gone, then come over and want to do the poking again. I'd say no, hold his hand and make a stroking motion. "We stroke him, like this. Gently." Slowly, he got the idea, and because I was always there with him, I could physically stop him from manhandling him, and now he seems to have outgrown it and understands that the cat doesn't like cuddles or rough games or poking, and will go up to him and stroke him really nicely when he is asleep or kiss him.

nailak I borrowed a copy from someone else but I'd recommend "How to Talk So Kids Listen" as being a lot more accessible and I think there is a pretty big overlap between the two (happy to be corrected!).

I read the book when I was in deep despair over my parenting abilities. DS is possible ASD and doesn't respond to reasoning and rationalisising.

TBH the book made me feel very demoralised and mad me feel as if I was doing the worst thing possible by insisting on specific behaviors.

I think I'm a mixture kind of person.... DS has to have rules and consequences otherwise he'd be even more out of control than he sometimes is.....

Now, the How to Talk book made so much more sense to me and I seem to be using a lot of the techniques in that at the mo.

Hmm, electric shocks might have worked... Rofl. She's 11 now and the dog's dead ( not from being poked in the eyes) I'm just curious as to what the UP solution would be - other than tackling her every two minutes and reminding her why she shouldn't be doing it? (I'm guessing that bit like)

Bertie has a good answer above if you haven't seen it :)

Pirate - or even if you want to do it as a reminder, you could make a poster together "What happens at bedtime" then maybe a picture of the clock at the time you start bedtime, then pictures for each step in order.

Though I like ticking things off lists so I don't see why a sticker is so bad in that context.

Tackling every 2 minutes and reminding her why not to do it does sound like a long-winded solution! Actually trying to talk/remind DS out of something when he's already doing it never ever works. I have to physically remove him or the thing, or just close my eyes and sigh and get him to help me sort it later.

i have never in RL heard any parents talk about what parenting 'techniques' or 'methods' they use...they just parent

this is bizarre...are you a bunch of counsellors or something???

Aye, bertie's answer wasn't there when I replied, lol, I'm on my phone...

She was blooming obsessed, and the dog was a bit neurotic anyway -bless him, he just let her, he'd sit there looking miserable, but putting up with it because if he left the room then he'd be ALONE (which was a terrible thing)

I've read a bit about UP and I suppose I sort of do some of it, as in, there aren't arbitrary rules, I explain why things should or shouldn't be done and I'm usually happy to discuss them, but sometimes the consequences are ones that I put in place...

Neverputasockinthetoaster - DS has asperger's and he definitely needs hard and fast rules, that's how he makes sense of things, DD you can definitely do a lot more discussion and let her make decisions, that makes DS anxious, he needs to know exactly what the rule is

I think most Up parents are just Normal Parents ie - we love them, we don't wallop them, we explain things.

there are a very small minority who give UP a bad name though. Those who think that because Tilly doesn't want to be stopped from hitting Jack with a wooden train, it is pointless to interfere. Or thinking it is perfectly normal for a ten year old to eat a hole box of cereal with strawberry milkshake and no dinner. Those parents who have an allergy to 'No'.

Ds2 is definitely more discursive. I can say "I don't know if we'll go out later, if it's very cold I might not feel like it, but if you're very good I might go out even if it's cold. Let's see."

With Ds1 I have to say "No. When the temperature is below 10 degrees, I do not like standing in parks, it makes me very cold. We will go if the temperature is ABOVE 10 degrees, AND it is not raining or very wet on the floor."

GitAwfMayLend

DS1 was like this. Came out, looked around kind of smiled and promptly went to sleep. Not a murmur, he is almost 7 now and is still the most chilled out kid I know.

DS2 however came out kicking and screaming and is very much inclined to dramatics if things are not going his way.

I look forward to seeing whether my 'Suck it Up Sunshine' method of parenting works as well with a firebrand as it does with an easy going kid.

This is why I have only the one child.

I know that if I had another child sod's law would decree I would get a high maintenance little so and so

I read the Alfie kohn book a couple of years ago. It made a lot of sense to me, as it is how I instinctively parent anyway, and it's how my own mum and dad raised my sister and me.

I have to laugh at the people who warn of dire consequences later in life for kids who are parented in this way. There were never any rewards or punishments in our house at all, nor any threat or promise of them, but my sister and I turned out ok! :) Neither of us felt the need to rebel as teenagers, we were both intrinsically motivated and did very well at school. As adults, we're both pretty well adjusted, and successful in our careers - never come across a boss yet who has wanted to put me on the naughty step! :)

I don't think I'm mad at all, nor am I making my life difficult. I'm just parenting in the way that feels right to me, and I'm happy to let others do what feels right to them. It's no big deal!

OK so I gave up at page 3, but wanted to respond to the people who say that punishment doesn't lead to a child believing the parent doesn't love them.

My DH has a typical lower middle class upbringing and genuinely believes his parents don't like him. To me and the outside world it is obvious that they do and that is where their nagging/worry comes from. Makes me :( but he acts to please his parents still (by saying the right thing etc.)

I don't believe people should just parent. That's where people fall into traps of behaviour without realise. My upbringing was far from perfect so where exactly have I been taught to parent. As those that say you should just parent, in reality you mean parent like you were taught to by your parents.

Also people think about all of their relationships. By having something to remind you evaluate and reassess the situation can only help. Parenting IMO is not instinctual (hope some of that makes sense).

Just parenting I feel is the lazy non parenting approach not UP (and what people think it is)

Crap just realised I responded to a thread started by funny

i do not use punishments, time out, naughty step, and i do not use rewards or rewards charts. we have boundaries, there are rules but i do not feel the need to constantly enforce them (unless ds is in danger), i pick my battles, and though i feel routine is important i do not agree that it is essential all the time and a mix up of routine i feel is good to help build confidence.

i have read articles on UP, i would not say that i UP i do not like labels this is jsut how i parent. ds is not perfectly behaved all the time and i do not expect him to be he is still a child and i understand that what he wants to do is not always what i want him to do so yes at times we compromise, i do not feel the need to be in control all the time, though i didn't realise at 31/2 he would be so strong willed :) he is a very happy, content and confident little boy so for us its working. i probably follow a lot of what is in the book

ds who is now 31/2 i had trouble cleaning his teeth, at times there would be tantrums but it had to be done and lots and lots of encouragement. the best thing was finding this toothbrush that has a light that flashes for 1 minute, you may be able to get it on ebay or amazon

and at his nursery they do not use time out, naughty step and they do not call a child naughty, they explain their behaviour is wrong so not to label a child. i am very happy with his nursery and their approach and he is very happy there