or are UP parents really nuts?

[FunnysInTheGarden]

I mean talk about making all your lives difficult....

Am ready BTW for the UP parents cries of dissent [cgrin]

And they had better hope that their childrens teachers are also fans of "UP", or the "Suri Cruise" children will be horrified when they get into their classrooms.

I haven't read the whole thread. but have parented both ways.
I have parented traditionally-with a naughty step and boundaries, with my step son and when my children were very young-and then I came across this style of parenting, through home educating parents we met after deregistering our children from school.

I can say 100% that UP parenting is so much easier!
We have a family that works together, our only rule is 'mutual respect'
There are no boundaries, no sanctions, no punishments, no nagging.
and the result has been no anxious stroppy children/teens/young people.
We don't so compromise-which leaves someone feeling that they have given something up, instead we work together to find a consensus-something everyone can live with.

We don't have 'My house My rules' stuff, the 'kids' all have a say in everything that happens to them, and are thoughful, polite, happy confident people.
We have never nagged, they all took themselves to FE college eventually and they attended because they chose to, did their work because they wanted to and were interested, and are/have produced very good results indeed.

Horses for courses I think, but this is a wonderful way to parent and I am so happy we found it.

Or, say, you're in the critical phase of preparing dinner and your child decides to have a tantrum, with screaming and kicking you in the shins, for example? Do you let the dinner burn while you spend 20 minutes trying to hold him at arms' length and explaining why it's wrong to kick your mummy?

I came across this style of parenting, through home educating parents we met after deregistering our children from school

Dear oh dear that actually explains a lot!!!

I can say 100% that UP parenting is so much easier!

There are no boundaries, no sanctions, no punishments, no nagging

Well it would be easier, you are just letting them do whatever they like...

It sounds like lazy parenting to me.

So the real message is to have friends who don't irritate you with their particular choices? I find those that are extensively evangelical about anything for a prolonged period tend to drop several levels and end up being casual acquaintances.
Sometimes, time changes circumstances and the relationship changes again.

I used one example. An example where DD2 tends to wait/do something else. You are extrapolating from this that this is always the case because DD1 tends toward the dramatic and noisy. I assume that you are doing this because you have decided that UP means 'giving in to whoever is noisiest'. Hardly rational.

In the example squeakytoy gave, I would start by offering a picnic as an option. So both children want to do something different (and expensive!). If I could afford it, we'd do one on saturday and one on sunday, sounds fun to me too, I like the zoo and theme parks too and can see why they'd prefer those options to a picnic. I know at 5 I would have done too. I would explain that both places cost a lot to get in to and that they would probably wipe out our going places budget for the month though.

If we couldn't afford both, I would explain that and suggest ways round it. Off the top of my head, we might decide together on which one to do this month and then decide on a date for the other the following month. DD1 likes having things to look forward too! DD2 would accept 'we're going soon', being 2 she doesn't have the same concept of time.

If we had other plans, say we were meeting someone for a picnic, they would know in advance that we had planned to meet a friend, they would be looking forward to that. If we needed to drum up enthusiasm, we'd plan our bigger days out for other weekends and then get them choosing their favourite things to eat on our picnic, planning which toys they were taking etc.

Off out now, to play in MIL and FIL's garden with the sprinkler on!

OP - I am stunned that so much effort is spent on exhaustively arguing the toss on whether the individual parenting style chosen by parents is THE BESt - wee bit totalitarian of you.

Put your energy somewhere it matters and donate some money to childline - for all those kids being brought up in homes where there really should be some criticism of "parenting" style.

This internecine attackery is wankery and smuggery of the first order.

Sorry. But I've been reading various threads today where abusive/negligent parenting is touched on - and this just strikes me as ridiculous.

Goblin, my dd is in year 1 and never had any trouble adapting to the different style of discipline in school. She is happy enough to get the rewards that are offered, and to the best of my knowledge, she has never experienced the punishments!

Personally, the rewards strike me as a bit arbitrary, and I hope that she doesn't focus too much on them as she gets older.

Winnybella Why would your child suddenly start kicking you in the shins and screaming? Out of nowhere? No indication that they might be having a problem with something? How old would this child be?

Responses to the situation would be different dependant on the age of the child anyway.

What sort of dinner making requires your full attention through the whole process? Might be nice to be able to do that but not necessary. And not always possible with young children whatever line you take with dealing with the child.

so squeaky, children aren't people and UP is both lazy and too much hard work.

loving the analysis

LeQueen "Yes, I have worked as a tutor for dozens of HE kids, and quite a few were AP...says it all really. The results weren't anything I'd ever aspire to."

I don't think it says anything really.

There are plenty of children parented in other ways who go to school who have behaviours that you would never aspire to.
And if you've tutored dozens of HE kids, then you will also know that there are a mix of behaviours as in any group of children. Unless they all declare their parenting styles how do you know which parents use which methods?

juuule Where did I say that I need to stand over the pots the whole time the dinner is cooking? I said 'critical phase' as in when everything is ready to be strained, mashed, whatever. It's just an example, same as when you're in a rush and the child refuses to leave the house- no one answered that one yet?

I do agree that explaining is a good way to go, but I don't see how it can always work/be applicable.

If you are in a rush and need to get out of the house, then that's what you do. Whether the child is in agreement or not. Explain why on the way to wherever you are going - if the child is receptive enough. But if things have to be done then they have to be done and AK allows for this in the UP book. Lots of people seem to overlook that part of the book for some reason. Some people who go the TCS (Taking Children Seriously) route have problems with this as the parent still gets to have the final say.

Oh and if my child suddenly started tantrumming while I was about to strain the boiling veg or something that could hurt the child, I'd remove the child from the room (and the danger) and strain the veg, then go and check what was wrong with my child.

so squeaky, children aren't people and UP is both lazy and too much hard work.

loving the analysis

thankyou

Children are not equals to adults, nor are they mini adults, nor are they adults-in-training, or any other twee title of a similar ilk... they are people, yes, but they are children, and should be treated as children.

UP is lazy if the posts on here are anything to go by. By lazy I mean laid back, too relaxed, and way too bloody soft. Rather than deal with confrontation, parents dither about negotiating and cajoling, rather than laying down the law that is part of being a parent.

Hard work, for everyone else, who has to suffer it and deal with the fall out.

Ok, thanks, juule

I really, really don't get why some people have such a big issue about UP.

Why the hostility? The weirdy defensiveness?

Strange.

Hope these people act/speak as decisively when they come across real instances of poor parenting.

Something tells me they roar like mice in those situations.

So what if they, for example, flatly refuse an immunisation and you are very pro-vacc? How would you deal with this?

I'm pretty certain that the basic tenets of UP are positive ones and what most parents aspire to.

However, I think slavishly following the technique is foolishly unimaginative. Most of us have a number of skills in our parental toolbox and it makes no sense not to utilise them all.

Just as we ahve learned that children respond to differing learning styles, surely different children respond to different parenting styles? Indeed, different situations must call for different approaches even with the same child.

My concern is that any 'method' which sets itself up as the parenting solution, undermines natural, instinctive parenting.

i agree why the hostility

and the constant accusations of being UP (or using similar methods) being a lazy form of parenting its far from being lazy. lazy parenting is not bothering to explain consequences and just making threats or smacking children when they have done something wrong that's a much quicker way of dealing with problems that may arise, that is lazy parenting

Squeakytoy "Rather than deal with the confrontation, parents dither"

That is the difference though Squeaky, there doesn't need to be any confrontation. Why look at it that way? I think it's bloody sad to think you would have confrontations with a three year old. A confrontation only arises if you make it one.

wotnochocs Surely you would get them vaccinated How could a young child be pro- or anti- vac? Listening to your child and considering their views doesn't stop you doing things that you consider in their best interests.

'I think it's bloody sad to think you would have confrontations with a three year old. A confrontation only arises if you make it one.'

What a crocK!!!