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AIBU?

DH has his judgey pants on and wants to know if HIBU!

100 replies

Bogeyface · 25/04/2011 23:28

He manages a bar/leisure outlet and he saw a man and his heavily pregnant wife go to order drinks. The man ordered a pint of lager and a single Jack Daniels chaser. DH didnt think much of it until the man asked the woman what she wanted and she said something DH didnt hear and the man said "And another JD, make it a double with a bit of coke"

He was a bit about it but knows the rules on drinking in PG and figured that one isnt ideal but not the end of the world. By the time he came home they were on their second round. I am 36 weeks pg btw.

He is digsusted and after being told by me that he would be called Judgey pants on here he wants your opinions on whether he is justified in pulling them up so high he gets a wedgie or whether he should mind his own business!

Personally I think he is NBU but then I would wouldnt I? :o

OP posts:

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fluffygal · 26/04/2011 21:23

I had 3 cocktails when DD1 was 2 days late (it was new yers eve). Hadn't drunk a drop of alcohol my whole pregnancy before that. Woke up new years day in labour, I swear it was because of the cocktails! Tried the same with DD2 though and it didn't work, boo.

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GotArt · 26/04/2011 21:26

TastesLikePanda If I were to go for a massage or a hair appointment with Aveda where they do scalp massages, they 'can't' use peppermint oil because apparently there is a risk of spontaneous miscarriage/early birth. I've been unable to get the stats on it though. Drinking peppermint tea while BF is suppose to slow down milk production, which is OK for weaning, but not if you are only BF... except at the beginning of BF DD, I drank it all the time.

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yama · 26/04/2011 21:29

Ooh, thanks Otchyaniye - I have just learned what a dypsomaniac is. Loved your Deadwood reference.

Anyway, this thread has given me a wee taste for a Glayva (not pregnant though, just breastfeeding).

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GotArt · 26/04/2011 21:31

Rebecca41 "...cavalier attitude to their pregnancy." You reckon that your experience has more to do with your irritation? Can you honestly say that if you became pregnant easily that you would still feel the same. I feel for you having to go through it, ( a close friend of mine has been up to it for over a year now, so I understand the difficulty and stress). FAS is also from extreme drinking, not enjoying a glass now and then in the second and third trimester.

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ohmyfucksy · 26/04/2011 21:33

It's not ideal, but it probably wouldn't actually do anything. You have to drink a hell of a lot over an extended period to harm the baby

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MixedClassBaby · 26/04/2011 21:36

Her body, her business IMO.

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otchayaniye · 26/04/2011 21:36

A pregnant woman drinking one to two units occasionally in mid to late pregnancy is not taking a "cavalier attitude to their pregnancy."

There is no evidence of any harm and this area has been under intense scrutiny for some time. I realise absence of evidence doesn't mean 'will not harm' but in this area and with this level of scrutiny it IS safe to say that it is fine to drink small amounts occasionally. My ob gyn knew more about it than I do and explained the level of risk to me.

I too went through a lot of infertility and surgery for Asherman's which took years before I conceived my child. I just happen to have a rational attitude to risk.

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WinterOfOurDiscountTents · 26/04/2011 21:38

No one has ever proven that toothpaste isn't harmful either. Or air.

You do not get foetal alcohol syndrome from moderate drinking, and you should probably care a lot less about what other grown adults choose to do with their own bodies.

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otchayaniye · 26/04/2011 21:41

No, but some people's babies are more special and some women are just plain selfish, apparently.

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GotArt · 26/04/2011 21:52

Air...

I just read that women should stay away from Vit-C rich foods, like oranges and grapefruits while BF as there is a link to diaper rash! I live on grapefruits and DD has only ever had one diaper rash; when I had to use Huggies... I usually use Broody Chick.

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PiaThreeTimes · 26/04/2011 21:55

HINBU!

"Her body, her business" doesn't wash. It's also the child's body.

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hairfullofsnakes · 26/04/2011 21:59

I would judge her too

A lot!

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otchayaniye · 26/04/2011 21:59

Yes, but when there is no evidence despite a great deal of study that 2 units of alcohol will irrevocably damage a foetus or baby then no one is causing damage to anyone else.

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DBennett · 26/04/2011 23:37

"there is no evidence despite a great deal of study that 2 units of alcohol will irrevocably damage a foetus"

This seems over-simplistic.

Because it's pregnancy and because it's alcohol we're not likely to ever be able to do the studies which would definitively answer this question.

Of the various types of observational & epidemiological research we are left with the majority, but not all, fail to find a increase of risk.

Does it mean there is an increased risk? No.
Does that mean that there is no increased risk? No.

Which is what the NHS and RCOG acknowledge when they create their guidelines.

They are clear that the only way to ensure NO risk from alcohol is not to consume it.

They are also clear that a lot of quantifiable risks start at moderate levels (3-4 units a week say).

The risks increases and the possible problems more serious at higher levels.

None of this means that a pregnant women should be judged for having a drink.
Or two.
Or even three.

That is a separate issue, one about autonomy and duty of care.

But the guidance is fairly clear, there really is no need to parse it.

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WinterOfOurDiscountTents · 26/04/2011 23:58

No, its her body. You know how you can tell? You can see the one, autonomous, living, thinking, breathing and deciding human person, with a name and a protection in law.
So yes, her body her choice.

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otchayaniye · 27/04/2011 07:24

DBennett, I appreciate the clearer explanation, and yes, I was being simplistic.

I had a long relationship with my ob/gyn who is obviously well-placed to interpret the risks and his words were clear: "One or two units occasionally (particularly later in pregnancy) will be fine, three or four and you start to take a risk. Any more than that and the risk of harm increases significantly."

In fact, this thread shows that people don't understand risk and aren't always sure about units (the idea that spirits are stronger than wine in terms of units, for example)

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Rebecca41 · 27/04/2011 08:02

I wasn't saying that drinking 2 units is having a cavalier attitude to pregnancy as such, I was referring more to the people who almost boast about how little notice they take of guidelines - the people who drink and eat soft cheese and so on, and are seemingly proud of being free from the shackles of recommendations.

We are all a product of our own experiences, and having gone through hell to conceive I would avoid walking on the cracks in the pavement if someone suggested it might help!

ALL doctors (and I happen to be one myself) will tell you that the answers regarding alcohol and pregnancy are not known for absolute certain, and the only way to be sure that your baby is not adversely affected by alcohol is to drink none at all throughout the pregnancy.

So for that reason I am baffled that anyone would take the risk, however small it is.

So that is why I think OP's husband is NBU. But like him, I wouldn't have said anything, because at the end of the day it is a free country, and I don't want some irate couple having a go at me!

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LaWeasel · 27/04/2011 09:34

Have you ever read "what to expect..." I perused it again the other day having just found out I'm PG with no2 and remember how absolutely flumuxed I was when I read it the first time.

Amongst the many other things it decides to ban pregnant women for doing despite there being zero evidence at all that they are harmful in any way, is cleaning, painting, going near microwaves, certain types of sweetner, walking near congested roads?!

It's absolutely bonkers.

No one can live avoiding everything that has ever been suggested might be harmful in pregnancy. All you can do is look into the risks yourself and decide if you think the risk is worth taking.

With regard to alcohol:

" In september 1996 a study of 15,000 pregnant women conducted by Professor Jean Golding at Bristol University actually came up with some surprising results.
We found a U-shaped curve where women who had never drunk alcohol during pregnancy were more likely to have a low birth weight baby that those who drank occasionally"

Science is rarely as simple as cut something 'bad' out of your life completely and you will get a positive result.

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DBennett · 27/04/2011 11:34

@LaWeasel

Is that quote from the book "what to expect..."?

Because I'm struggling to find the research paper which would back it up.

The nearest I can find is a study of 500 women by that research group in that year which didn't find any difference between low and no alcohol consumption.

It's also odd in that the Bristol group is one of the more prominent groups finding very low levels of alcohol ( 1 unit a week) to increase the risk of mental health issues.

It's unsettling that I can't find a better match.

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beingsetup · 27/04/2011 11:57

In certain countries overseas, bfing mums are not allowed onions, strawberries, oranges and a whole host of other things as they are believed to a)smell bad and b)adversely affect the baby.

This is information given in hospital. In this same country I tried to order a coffee whilst pregnant and was given a huge bollocking by a disgusted local at my lack of care for the baby.....

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beingsetup · 27/04/2011 11:58

So your husband is not the only one with his judgey pants on! However, in the Uk its not really acceptable to interfere.

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WinterOfOurDiscountTents · 27/04/2011 12:01

If you take all the recommendations for every country around the world and apply them to one pregnant woman, she'll die of malnutrition and/or boredom in a week. Every substance known to man is harmful in someones book.

So we're all being cavalier, even you, sainted Rebecca41.

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LaWeasel · 27/04/2011 12:06

DBennet - No, it's from another book, just looked it up and annoyingly it's reference to a newspaper article in the Independent from 3 September 1996, so you'd have to chase that to chase the reference.

But since it was back in 96 it may well not be online. Not a lot of pro-drinking-in-pregnancy groups making sure this information is available!

It's like a study from a while back which showed that smoking had minimal impact on health if accompanied by a very healthy diet, which was universally slammed for not motivating people to quit! And is therefore quite difficult to find the details of.

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chipmonkey · 27/04/2011 13:03

You can't judge because you don't know her circumstances. A colleague's niece was pg and her baby was diagnosed with Potter's syndrome and would die at birth. After the diagnosis, she did carry the baby to term but started to smoke and drink again as it would make no difference to the baby. She did get some nasty looks from people who didn't know her.

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DBennett · 27/04/2011 19:02

@LAWeasel

Thanks for the swift reply.

I have searched for papers from that group in the medical databases and checked review documents by the RCOG through that time period.

They reference the study I linked to but no one that matches your description.

I fear we both may have been led astray.

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