To not know how to tell a friend that her sons have been behaving inappropriately toasted my young daughters

[emkana]

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Please guys how do I do this?

emkana - reinforce to your dds that they were absolutely right to tell you, whatever happens with this friendship.

I may be many things but naive I aint.

I have fostered, adopted and work with children.

Done loads of CP work. If you turned up on one of those training courses and started spouting that load of toss you would be taken gently aside by the facilitors and asked if you had any 'issues'

YOu too Decorhate.

But I am glad you have found a friend. (just dont be in the same room alone together)

You don't learn any coping mechanisms or how to behave appropriately if there are never any clear boundaries set for you. And a surefire way of setting your children up for a frightening life is expecting other parents to set the boundaries for their children and thinking your children will be protected by them. Madness!

Decor hate - I disagree. The majority of boys who are interested in females in that kind of way (which I don't think is always the case with 11 and 13 year old boys anyway) will think about the age of the child and look beyond the physical maturity.

Bonsoir - I never said you shouldnt have boundaries - but you made it out thats all you have to do and everything in your la la land will be fine. It also depends on what those boundaries are - its you who thinks the OP hasnt set boundaries or something, how do you know? Because you are just comparing them with your own rather warped view of the world.

I see plenty of little girls leading boys on every day, and boys enjoying it. It is part and parcel of what children do. They are not asexual... It's fine, as long as it happens in a well-supervised environment where the boundaries of propriety can be maintained.

I didn't say it was all you have to do.

Where do you live

What do you do all day?

Are you sure you are really seeing it? Perhaps you are imagining it?

I find bonsoirs posts disturbing as well.

To put the responsibility for anything that went on (which might have just been messing about) onto the DDs and their parents is unbelievable.

Do you really think if the OP had thought for one second that anything untoward would have happened to her DDs she would have happily sent them off together to play?

And the alternative is to suspect and 'protect' her DDs from any males of whatever age they come into contact with as a family is ridiculous.

I understand parents need to make their DC aware of inappropriate behaviour in themselves and other people, but laying this at the feet of 7 and 9 YO is not fair.

Have you thought on how you're going to tackle the situation yet OP?

Isn't Bonsoir the one who thought it was perfectly fine for parents to send their children on playdates to Roman Polanski's house.

I didnt say it was all you have to do

Your words were "Put down firm and proper boundaries and nothing bad will happen" - thats what it reads to me.

I'm also wondering how a seven year old girl can fend off a determined thirteen year old boy or even ten year old boy. Physically there is no match whatsoever.

'I see plenty of little girls leading boys on every day, and boys enjoying it. It is part and parcel of what children do. They are not asexual... It's fine, as long as it happens in a well-supervised environment where the boundaries of propriety can be maintained.'

That sounds like the type of reasoning a paedophile would use to justify their behaviour.

Disgusting.

It must be hard to live with such revolting thoughts in your head Bonsoir.

Is that an argument that children would be having sex if the "boundaries of propriety" aren't maintained? What is it that little girls leading boys on to?

When we were younger, my sisters and I would play with both boys and girls, but I can never remember playing in peoples bedrooms, either in our house or theirs, we'd play in the gardens, or in the dining room / conservatory etc.

Emkana - can you say to the parents "last time we came around, DD's said that your DS lay on them when playing a game, and it hurt them with the boys being much bigger, could you have a word with your DS's so it doesn't happen again?". A way of starting the conversation with the parents, without making them immediately on the offensive or believing you're accusing their DS's of being overly sexual iyswim.

At what age would you say that a boy should not be left alone with a girl in his room BonSoir?

agentzigzag -Im in total agreement with you regarding it sounding like something a paedophile would say to justify their behaviour, I really really cant believe anyone would think this unless they had some disturbing attitudes to sexual behaviour and children.

It is not part and parcel of what children do - yes sexual exploratory play in children can happen but they dont have the emotional or cognitive capacities to be mature enough to "lead boys on" in the way you are implying.

I cannot believe that some people think it's innapropriate for children of opposite sexes to play in a bedroom together.

My DS1 is 15. If we have my niece (10 and yes, she is physically grown up for her age) round or my neighbours DD, aged 8, they often go upstairs to play on the PS3 for a while. It would never occur to me that a) the girls would be in any danger from my son, who is well aware that no matter how physically developed a young girl may be, 10 and 8 year olds are simply children and he views them as such, little children, or b) that my son would be in any danger of accusations or being 'led on' from these little girls, because they are just that, little girls interested in all the usual things little girls are and that doesn't include anything sexual with boys IMO.

Vile, vile, vile that anyone could think any different and also bizarre that people think any sort of abuse can only occur in bedrooms.

And back to the original question OP I would tend to go with something like Elf suggests, and leave it to the boys parents to deal with then.

midori - "no matter how physically developed a young girl may be, 10 and 8 year olds are simply children and he views them as such, little children".........thats my view exactly, anything else is a huge diservice to boys, implying they are all sexual predators who are physically incapable of keeping their hands off anything female, no matter what age they are. Disgusting.

That's it newgolden, they are exploring their bodies/minds as children and have to be taught what is or isn't acceptable.

But to imply little girls leads boys on in the way it was phrased is not the same thing.

Would it make a difference to bonsoir whether the little girls had short skirts and tight t-shirts on? A swimming cossie perhaps? Would that make it their fault if anything happened to them?

Of course not, because that would be a ridiculous argument.

Why do you think it "disgusting" to recognise that children (even quite little ones) have sexual feelings, and that it is in their interest to be protected from the temptation of acting upon them until they are mature enough to handle them properly?

Biology isn't "disgusting", unless you are yourself very repressed.

You're not really saying that prepubescent children want to have sex are you?

Bonsoir - you are misconstruing what I say - it is your attitude that is disgusting, not that I dont recognise children can have sexual feelings. Of course they do - but as I said they dont have the emotional and cognitive capacities to understand them - there is no way they are "tempted" to act upon them, you are using words like "temptation" to impy they fully understand what all the feelings are about, when they dont have a clue.

I work with adults who have been sexually abused as children and it is attitudes like yours that cause them no end of problems, leaving people dealing with totally unnecessary guilt that they were somehow at "fault" as children for "doing something" that encouraged their abusers, which isnt true.

You cant raise children with the view that abuse happens everywhere all the time (again its about balancing risk versus the freedom to grow up independant) or that all boys are potential abusers either, and thats all your attitude screams to me.

I'm not blaming the children anywhere - I'm saying that parents have a duty to supervise, which is quite different.

Even quite little children can and do act upon sexual feelings; boarding schools and children's homes have long and documented evidence of this.