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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Fuming and shaking, please hold my hand

149 replies

Saw444 · 24/04/2011 12:47

Will keep it short

Have namechanged as this will get me recognised

Dd (7) was playing with her little friends at the small park next to the house I can't see it from the window but if I walk to the side of the house I can talk to her without shouting it's that close

She ran in with her friend looking frightened a while ago and I asked what wad wrong, turns out that two teenagers had been playing on the bike ramp next to it started talking to the little ones then one of them had pulled down her shorts while the other filmed it

She said her pants "got stuck on her bum" so never came fully down

I ran out the house and seen the boys disappear beyond the park and recognised one of them as the older brother of one of dd,s school mates

He is at least 14

I have been to the door and demanded they get there boy home now and check his mobile, shouted a few things I prob should not have done then came home and dh has called the police who we are waiting on arriving

I am furious, a young child I could understand even though I would still have spoke to the parents but 14!!!!

Dd seems fine, we never made a big deal in front of her, told her she was a good girl for knowing to come in and tell me and she is now watching shrek eating a Easter egg

I don't know what else to do

OP posts:

maristella · 25/04/2011 12:14

OMG your poor DD, and poor you :(

OP you've been fantastic, every inch the supportive, loving and protective parent your DD needs, and thanks to you she will be fine.

You must have had an awful 24 hours, I can't imagine the rage and fear you must have felt. I'm so angry for you all.

As the parent of a teen boy, i'm fucking shocked by this boy's parents' response. Children know from a much younger age that private parts are private. At 14 these boys knew they were doing wrong, and did it anyway, and now they need some intervention.

Diggs · 25/04/2011 13:19

Im surprised the boys were taken to the parents house instead of being arrested . Are they going to be arrested op ? Have the police said what they are going to do ?

TheOriginalFAB · 25/04/2011 15:43

You are doing everything right and I would suggest you keep your own written record of everything that happens.

ChippingInLovesEasterEggs · 25/04/2011 15:59

I hope the police/sw frighten the life out of the little shits.

It's good your DD came straight to you so that you could see who it was!

GiddyKips · 25/04/2011 16:35

Hello OP (and threadies)
I thought you might be interested to have the perspective of someone who's worked within the criminal justice system in particular with people who exhibit sexually inappropriate behaviours/commit sexual offences.
Personally my approach to this would have been the same as yours OP. I would have called the police then I would have asked to talk to a specialist officer and got his opinion on the best way to proceed (bearing in mind they may know of any previous incidences involving these boys). I would then be guided by the officer concerned (not any old plod mind you-i'd wiggle my way up the line as bearing in mind that not all police officers have specialist understanding of sex offences)

The boys are only young themselves and wont have a highly developed thought process. While many of the parents of boys this age may say that their sons 'know' when something is wrong-it really depends on what they mean by 'know'.
It's unlikey they thought about the impact of their behaviour on your dd and it's unlikely they do now. They're probably just shit scared.

If this is the first time this has happened I would be unlikely to push for pressing charges as it could well be boys being silly while egging each other on but I would demand that the local authority/Youth Offending team help in providing some mediation so that the point of the exact 'wrongness' of what they have done is hammered through to them. I'd be asking the YOT in conjunction with the police to allocate someone to mediate between me and the family so that the consequences of the behaviour could be properly understood.

I wouldn't be so quick to be demanding arrests if this was a one off- last thing the world needs is more children with their lives ruined before they've even started out.

Pagwatch · 25/04/2011 16:49

really?

a 14 year old boy doesn't know that this behaviour is wrong?

really?

I would expect my 14 year old to understand that doing this was at the very least bullying and humiliating. At the very least shitty, mean and reprehensible.

I am struggling to envisage finding out that my DS had done such a thing and treating it as 'silliness' and the result of egging each other on.

I wouldn't want the boys arrested. I wouldn't want their lives tainted so young.
But i would be equally horrified if anyone dealing with it minimised it down to childish silliness.

GypsyMoth · 25/04/2011 16:51

i second YOT involvement

only decent agency i have found!!

christmasdaybaby · 25/04/2011 16:56

I understand your DH bing annoyed coz the video was evidence but I would have done exactly the same ! ! this has actually upset me. hope your DD is ok. Something similar happened to my sister as a child and the police said as he was 13 it was just seen as a prank and not an offense ! ! hope you have better results

exoticfruits · 25/04/2011 16:58

I think they need a very sharp shock-you wouldn't want their lives tainted -but you would want them to know that it wasn't childish silliness and it is the sort of thing that could taint their lives if not stopped immediately. They need to realise they have to think of the consequences- and they can't get away with it.

PinkToeNails · 25/04/2011 17:08

So sorry to hear this. I hope your DD is not too traumatised.

ledkr · 25/04/2011 17:23

I also work with young offenders and the level of sexual awareness at that age is so varied,it depends upon their comptency-used to be gillick now something else-some 14yr old boys are sexually active whereas some will be fairly naive,however they would all know that pulling a little girls pants down is wrong end of.
YOT are a great service but would need to have specialist knowledge of this type of offence and not all workers do.

GiddyKips · 25/04/2011 17:25

Pagwatch says:

^"really?

a 14 year old boy doesn't know that this behaviour is wrong?

really?"^

Well yes not on the same level that you and I understand it. They might understand it's wrong because their parents have said it's wrong or it's wrong on the basis that it's "not nice" or maybe in some cases- illegal but any deeper understanding in terms of the impact on girls and all surround lssues about power dynamics/bullying how it feels to be humiliated and helpless-no. You'd have to dig around a lot for that and really work through it with them. These arnt issues that young boys have in the forefront of their minds while having a laugh in the park with their mates (if at all).

GiddyKips · 25/04/2011 17:27

Don't YOT always have an experienced Probation Officer in your area Ledkr? I'm not a YOT worker btw Ledkr

GiddyKips · 25/04/2011 17:29

Sorry bad English-distracted typing. Doesn't YOT always have an experienced Probation Officer on each team in your Area?

GiddyKips · 25/04/2011 17:31

Also Ledker-i'm not sure what you mean by a boys sexual activity (or lack of) being a measure of how much they can empathise with a younger female child. These things aren't directly related in my book.

GiddyKips · 25/04/2011 17:34

FFS 'sexual experience' not activity-3 convos going on here at once in my living room-i'm a crap multi-tasker

Diggs · 25/04/2011 17:36

Their lives wouldnt be forever tainted if they were arrested , only if they were charged . An arrest means nothing but would probably hammer home how serious it was , for both them and their parents . Presumable they are old enough to be arrested if they were caught shoplifting or something similar .

My experiences of Yot is that they can bareley keep up with the cases referred to them via court orders ect .

ledkr · 25/04/2011 17:54

Yes giddy in my area there are a mix of sw,and sessional workers some not very experienced at all and will take yps for a burger and chat.Diggs is spot on when saying that they are massively over stretched due to supervision orders etc. but we did have a service called youth crime prevention which im not sure is still running due to funding.
I pointed out about the sexual activity to illustrate just how varied their age group is experienced when it comes to sex.I think that has a bearing on assessing what type of motive there was in these cases.
I am unsure re the empathy thing,i did a great training course on children who sexually attack others but i didnt aggree with a some of it. It did talk however about early onset of this behaviour being minor offences on younger children.
Im not sure what im rabbiting on about now tbh but i really do think a 14 yr old knows its wrong to do that,if not why didnt they do it in op's front garden and why did they leg it after?I have had 3 14 yr old boys and they definately saw 7yr olds a little kids who it wouldnt be right to taunt or upset.

flyingspaghettimonster · 25/04/2011 18:03

I disagree that they don't know what they are doing at 14. I was abused by a 14 and 16 year old. They knew it was wrong. I wish an adult had stepped in and called the police for me and my friend. I hope your DD is okay and I think you did exactly the right thing, and I hope those boys get the help/bollocking they need to stop it ever happening again.

GotArt · 25/04/2011 19:00

Sorry Giddy... but I believe zero tolerance is the only way to get through to children these days, particularly at the age these boys were. The reaction of the SIL clearly demonstrates the mentality of this family and the one boy will hear trash talk now about how 'silly' and ridiculous it all is, all with an underlying revenge message to it... ie: more bullying. I bet boys that get away with this sort of behaviour early on are the ones in the court system later saying 'she was drunk, and clearly wanted it'. You can't tell me, unless the boys suffer from severe mental maturity, that they wouldn't understand that a 14 year old boy pulling down a 7 year old girls underpants and filming it, is wrong and wouldn't have some lasting affect. Regardless of what that boy could be going through within his home, his behaviour outside clearly needs to be dealt with, which may bring to light the whys of his behaviour. The skeletons that may get exposed will only be good in the long run.

Reminds me of the recent event in southern US where a dozen boys, between 14 and 27, raped an 11 year old girl in a trailer and filmed it, then said they didn't know she was only 11.

Pagwatch · 25/04/2011 20:50

I don't agree GiddyKips
I think assuming that a 14 year old cannot understand or empathise sufficiently to recognise the consequences of this type of bullying behaviour is massively patronising.
And wrong in many instances.

To say that no 14 year old can understand is as wrong as saying all can.

My son would have understood. I don't regard him as stunningly unusual or empathetic.

AllOverIt · 26/04/2011 08:22

Having taught at secondary level for over 12 years, I have to say that the vast majority of 14 year olds would know that this behaviour was cruel and completely inappropriate.

However, I have known a handful of 14 year olds who are very naive and silly and may well have done something as nasty without fully realising how wrong it was.

That is only a handful of kids out of thousands I have known though.

Hope your DD is okay now OP and that the police are following it up.

dobby2001 · 02/05/2011 22:49

Hi Saw
How are things for youall now?

takethisonehereforastart · 02/05/2011 23:31

I hope your daughter is still okay OP. I'm sure you will be keeping a close eye on her to give reassurance if she does start to show signs of being more upset by this that she first appeared.

I think you've done just the right thing and I hope you haven't had any more trouble from the SiL.

It's not your fault he's being labed as a paedophile, it's his own fault, regardless of how aware he was of the rights and wrongs or whether his intentions were sexually motivated or otherwise.

My own opinion is that sexual attacks aren't actually about sex though, aren't they about power and humiliation of the victim? So if the intention was just to bully and humiliate it's gone way beyond name calling or stealing lunch money.

And in this day and age it would take a very naive fourteen year old not to realise what may happen by acting in such a way to such a young girl. My SiL is a teacher and refuses to be alone in a room with a single pupil after one thirteen year old accused her of touching him in an empty classroom. It was a spite claim based on the fact that he had a crush on her and was failing in the class. Luckily he hadn't realised that a classroom assistant was in the annexe and aware of what was going on. He was very aware of the implications that claim would have on her. SiL now keeps the door to the classroom open at all times and takes steps to ensure she is never alone with a pupil.

Make sure you report anything else that happens to the police and as someone else said, let your DD's school know.

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