to wonder about obesity

[crashingwaves]

Please, please, PLEASE don't think that this is a fat-bashing thread, I hate it when people do that and I'd never ever do it myself.

The thing is, I love food, I do like nice food and I do overeat on occasions. My BMI is 'overweight' - I could do with shifting a stone - I'm most definitely not a size 8 smuggie person.

What I'm wondering about isn't even people a fair bit bigger than me. But really, really large people (I'm thinking around the 20 stone + region) Isn't it quite, well, difficult in a way to maintain and gain weight at that size, as you really would have to be eating an awful lot (unless a medical reason, I realise things like PCOS can contribute.)

I suppose I was wondering as my friend has a friend who is only 21 and weighs 18 and a half stone - to be honest I think she is in denial a little bit as she says things like "Oh I know I don't look this big" when to be honest she does - I understand that - but given that at that size it is fairly easy to make small changes and still lose weight, I guess I just wonder why people don't. That did sound quite bitchy and judgemental and I'm honestly trying hard to avoid that.

I can totally see how people get big, I've "been there" myself but I guess what I mean was when the scales hit 13 stone I thought "f*ck!" and went on a diet - surely if the scales hit 20 stone you would ...?

I probably deserve a flaming - can I just say mega apologies if I DO offend you as I honestly don't want to do that!

I've just spent the weekend with 2 of my closest 50-something thin-as-a-pin friends. They have both recently been diagnosed with life-threatening conditions. One has high chloresterol and is now on life-long medication - her BMI is 20. Active health-fiend - runner, veggie, homeopathic meds etc.

The other has high BP and has just has surgery for breast cancer. Her BMI is 22. Always cooks from scratch, walks 6 miles per day.

So, statins, lifelong BP meds, before they are even 54. And they are NOT FAT.

Am so sick of the judgie pants crap on this thread I will have to hide it. Before anyone gets too smug about fat-bastarditis and it's causes, check out some of the posts on the menopause thread - or have a read here

BTW - I am a 50 year old fat bastard with below-average BP and impeccable chloresterol levels. Gave up a 30 year-long 30-per-day fag habit 2 months ago but still drink like a fish. BMI is 26 and I weigh over 13 stone. Never take excercise either apart from walking to the offie.

I will not be guilt-tripped into feeling like shite about my former lifestyle choices. And my poorly middle-aged mates don't ever attempt to guilt-trip their more fortunate contemporaries either.

Hatesponge - I AM quite flexible despite my weight and the moaning about aching joints etc. Don't get me wrong, I could wipe but it was becoming difficult (picture it if you dare . . . fat arm, fat waist . . .reaching around . .. there is only so much arm to reach around a fat middle section). God I am grossing myself out here -too much info I think - I am a long time lurker on the boards and this is what I choose to post about!!!!!!!!!!.

The point I was trying to make was to all the doubters of FabbyChic - that this IS in the realms of possiblity and that it is likely that FabbyChic wasn't making it up. I read her post and sadly that part struck a chord. Then she recieved all the disbelieving posts. That was my experience at a size 18/20 but of course I'm not saying all people my size or larger can't wipe their own bottoms!

Same thing really regarding the legs -different body shapes I suppose.

Cheerful - That was a really good point you made about slim people not necessarily being healthy. I eat lots of sweets etc but my basic meals consist of good healthy food. My friends Mum died very young due to blocked arteries and she was a normal weight.

Anyway, must sign off now and get some sleep, I didn't realise that chatting about wiping my bum would keep me up so late! I will NOT be sharing the reason for my tiredness with DH tomorrow!

The judging completely goes both ways on these threads, slim people always come in and say how unhealthy and miserable overweight people are, and vice-versa.

I'm a size 10, so slim-ish, I'm very toned and my stomach is firm. BUT that's because I run or swim every weekday morning and play or train for netball twice a week. I don't like the stereotype that to be slim I have to eat lettuce all day, I eat like a pig (albeit a vegan pig...) but luckily I'm one of those irritating bouncy people who can't sit still. However, when I broke my arm and could only go for walks instead of hardcore cardio I was amazed at how my body changed. I actually lost a couple of pounds due to losing muscle but I was flabby and my clothes were very tight within 2 weeks. I can see how people would gain weight quickly through immobility.

Am I right in thinking that the higher muscle density you have the more calories you burn anyway? So if you exercise and tone up as well as diet it should put extra speed into weight loss.

Tyzer I think it's fairly safe to assume that no morbidly obese person is ever going to look fantastic in the nude....not even Dawn French

This will be my last reply to you worraliberty because your mind is firmly closed to any opinion other than your own.

But once more, I just want to say that the above is your opinion not fact. And it is never 'fairly safe' to state your own opinion as hard fact.

She may not look fantastic to you. But to some, she'll look like a goddess. And she's a sensible woman so those will be the opinions that matter.

The thing is...smoking can be stopped, drinking can be stopped, drugs can be stopped, but food...we need food to survive. We can't just avoid it.

...people who are very slim always assume they are healthy
Not "always, not "all" "skinny" people are so ignorant, just as not all "morbidly obese" people are sexually unattractive. Let's not make sweeping generalisations, ok?

Your body becomes physically addicted to alcohol, nicotine and some drugs. It does not become physically addicted to food. You can certainly have an emotional addiction but it's not the same and makes the "you can give up alcohol but must eat food" argument a bit weak IMO.

Actually I think you'll find your body is BORN physically addicted to food.

Try stopping dead, going cold turkey - and see how many days you last!

That's not being addicted. Clearly only an idiot would not realise you must eat food to survive.

The emotional crutch with food for some is a form of psychological addiction. It needs to be treated in line with other addictions or eating disorders. It's largely ignored in terms of dedicating medical teams to combat it, thus fat people just get told to 'move more, eat less' blah blah.

The overcome the psychological barriers/hurdles does, in a lot of cases, require professional help. To be fobbed off with pills or leaflets on how to eat is insulting.

There are people who have no idea about food and portion control, but I bet there are more with psychological issues related to food.

That's my point- emotional and physical addictions are not treated in the same way. It would be dangerous for a chronic alcoholic to go cold turkey- it could kill them- so they do so under medical supervision, with the use of drugs. Someone recovering from an addiction to say, LSD, would not need that.

You can certainly have an emotional addiction but it's not the same and makes the "you can give up alcohol but must eat food" argument a bit weak IMO.

Sorry serenity, are you saying that emotional addicitions are easier to overcome than a physical addiction?

No, not at all.

Yes but - whereas someone recovering from an alcohol/tobacco/drug addiction can avoid trigger situations and avoid the product itself, you can't exactly avoid food, can you?

Jaqueline, thank you for your posts. They really validated a lot of what I have been thinking about recently.

Of course you can become physically addicted to food- The more you eat, your stomach expands and you feel hungrier and hungrier. I remember being told by a drugs expert once that you can't become physically addicted to cannabis... But just because you have no experience of it doesn't mean it doesn't really exist for others. Food addiction is a bugger to overcome because you can't go cold turkey- You can't just stop, you have to learn to control what you eat and portion sizes. People battle food addiction, and I can't see how anyone can disrespect the seriousness of any addiction like I'm seeing on this thread...

The thing is...smoking can be stopped, drinking can be stopped, drugs can be stopped, but food...we need food to survive. We can't just avoid it.

That isnt really a valid point. We can moderate what we eat and change our lifestyle. You can avoid eating crap.

We can have an "addiction" to pies, pastries, thick doorstops of toast dripping with butter.... but if you suddenly stop eating them, and eat healthier food you will not be ill.

I am not saying that over-eating disorders do not exist, but you can treat it, you can over-come it, and you can gain self control. Like every other addiction though, you have to want to do it. I do not believe for one moment that anyone likes being fat. I certainly didnt. I wasnt miserable, but how can anyone be happy when their mobility is restricted, their health is at risk, you cant just walk into a shop and find nice fashionable clothes, you cant run, you struggle to fit a seatbelt round you on an airplane, you cant go on the rides at a theme park, the list is quite extensive... being fat limits what you can do in life, and it shortens your life too.

It's all in the head. The mind is a powerful thing. Of course, quitting a strong drug like heroine is completely different and much more serious than coming off fatty/salty/sugary foods.

However, I would say that salt, sugar and fats are addictive in some way, even if that is psychological. I have found quitting smoking cold turkey hard, but trying to quit eating bread for example, far, far harder.

I wonder how many people actually have food addictions and how many just think they do?

I mean surely there's a difference between simply craving certain foods and being actually addicted to them?

squeaky, it's perfectly possibe to put on a whole load of weight over the long term whist eating 'good' food, by eating too much of it.

Not everyone is overweight because they are eating pies and pounds of butter.

Furthermore, I think dividing foods into good and bad actually is counterproductive. Everything in moderation is the key.

Of course it's possible to overcome addictions, whatever they are, but it's obviously not easy, otherwise we wouldn't have an obesity problem.

I put on 2 lb just from yesterday. Ate about 500 cals worth of eggs. (yes i know the sums dont add up but thats what the scales say)

Cannabis isn't physically addictive. If you are truly addicted to food, as qrraliberty said, you would be addicted to any food. You won't become obese eating lettuce. There is no reason a food addiction means eating high calorie food. That said I have read a lot from addiction experts and some do think that comparing food to heroin/ alcohol addiction shows a lack of understanding about drug addiction and belittles it's seriousness.

Even if you want to bring food addiction into the d

Opps posted too soon- meant to say food addiction affects a very small number of obese people. Not being able to stop yourself doing something is not the same as addiction.

breathing, that sounds like water retention - my weight fluctuates by up to 7lbs from first thing in the morning to last at night. But I did just put on 3-4lbs in 2 weeks holiday - I was so stuffing my face