to wonder about obesity

[crashingwaves]

Please, please, PLEASE don't think that this is a fat-bashing thread, I hate it when people do that and I'd never ever do it myself.

The thing is, I love food, I do like nice food and I do overeat on occasions. My BMI is 'overweight' - I could do with shifting a stone - I'm most definitely not a size 8 smuggie person.

What I'm wondering about isn't even people a fair bit bigger than me. But really, really large people (I'm thinking around the 20 stone + region) Isn't it quite, well, difficult in a way to maintain and gain weight at that size, as you really would have to be eating an awful lot (unless a medical reason, I realise things like PCOS can contribute.)

I suppose I was wondering as my friend has a friend who is only 21 and weighs 18 and a half stone - to be honest I think she is in denial a little bit as she says things like "Oh I know I don't look this big" when to be honest she does - I understand that - but given that at that size it is fairly easy to make small changes and still lose weight, I guess I just wonder why people don't. That did sound quite bitchy and judgemental and I'm honestly trying hard to avoid that.

I can totally see how people get big, I've "been there" myself but I guess what I mean was when the scales hit 13 stone I thought "f*ck!" and went on a diet - surely if the scales hit 20 stone you would ...?

I probably deserve a flaming - can I just say mega apologies if I DO offend you as I honestly don't want to do that!

I have heard the "burn more calories than you take in" line for the whole of my adult life. Normally, I hide any obesity threads, because I'm so fed up of everyone assuming that fat people just eat rubbish all day.

It took the Cambridge diet (500ish kCal) per day plus 3 hours of aerobics per week for me to lose 60lb, my BMI has dropped to 31, which is still obese. However, for the last 2 months, I have stayed the same weight, even on exactly the same diet. I don't believe for a minute that I'm using less than 500 kcal a day, as I have an active life, but still weight is not dropping off.

Thing is, no-one sees what an overwieght person is doing to change things, and reading and hearing the usual "eat less, exercise more" mantra is quite frankly soul destroying, when you see others who are a more healthy weight eating whatever they fancy and not putting weight on.

mamaz0n I have just seen your profile pic ...you bitch [buenvy]

I weigh 10.5 stone and do not have your amazing face profile.

I have lots of chins [buangry]

Anyone fancy taking alook at my thread about comfort eating in the big/slim club forum?

ta!

Exercise is the biggest Issue
as a society were are v. lazy compared to decades ago. infact more women now have to be induced for birth and alot of it correlates to our sedintary lifestyles.

Those that can eat what you want - are you under 40. A big surprise may come and bite you, once I hit my late 30s I ate the same and gradually put on weight all round my middle when I have always had a very slim 24 inch waist - sigh... I'm exercising now like mad to get it off.

I put on 5 stone with my last pregnancy and that was purely due to eating more (carbs reduced my sickness) and exercising not at all. I cannot believe that I put on so much in so little time (especially as I lost 3 stone prior to getting pregnant again) and I felt like complete shite all the way through. I still have only lost half a stone but have started exercising 5 times a week and the difference in how I feel is amazing. I am still a fattie (16 stone 12lb) but everyone has said that I look so different and like I have lost loads of weight when I have not, I have just toned up and lost 2 dress sizes with a 7lb loss . BUT I am fit - I can manage 60 lengths of the pool non stop in 35 minutes and can lift 40 kg weights.

I know the rest of the weight will come off easily when I start concentrating on myself a bit more and 'rewarding' myself with nutitrious food that takes time to prepare rather than crap that I can just grab out of the cupboard. I have realised that I don't care enough about MYSELF to look after myself which is why I am still fat, I focus on my DCs first and foremost and have realised that they will benefit much more from having a fit, healthy mother who does not get irritated by the smallest things as I felt like crap all the time. I shall get there though.

Exercise is most definitely key, preferably weight training to get the best results. I do not believe ANYONE can be happy being fat.

Iliketea, if you are still on a 500cal per day diet, you are not eating enough, which is why you are not losing any weigh, and you are also doing your body no favours either, as it will be in starvation mode..

Tyzer I think it's fairly safe to assume that no morbidly obese person is ever going to look fantastic in the nude....not even Dawn French.

Oh what an informative and enlightening thread...Oh no my mistake it's just another obesity thread on MN where we see the good old eat less, move more you fat, unattractive, unclean fatty advice rolled out. Anyone who actually may have a clue who then challenges this advise is accused of being a fatty in denial bla, blah, blah.

I think what may be really helpful is for those ignorant sods who believe they have all the answers to tootle off to the hospital nearest to them that has a specialist bariatric department and educate themselves.

I understand that to lose weight you must eat less and move more, guess what most overweight people also understand this (I say most as some people really don't understand) in fact I have more knowledge that most people on the subject, so much I could probably give lessons on it. My children are perfectly fit and healthy and have beautifully balanced diets.

I on the otherhand am massively overweight more so than anyone has mentioned on this thread and I am going to be undergoing bariatric surgery to remove part of my stomach to try and help me gain control of my weight problems. I have an eating disorder, I have been literally begging for help from my Dr for over 5 years now (during which time I have gained an extra 6 stone), I have lost nearly all mobility, suffer depression and can not lead a normal life. Yet still I eat, still I have not control over the one thing in my life that makes me want to kill myself. I have will power, I gave up smoking 5 years ago and never looked back that was a 20-30 a day habit gone. Yet food I just can't quit it.

I have an eating disorder, like an anorexic but instead of starving myself to death I'm eating myself to death.

I'm sure you wouldn't be so dumb as to ever tell an anorexic to just eat more, so please, please do not just tell me to eat less, move more.

I don't want to be pedantic Jaq, but I have been anorexic and yes, people do tell you to just eat more. I know it's not that simple. Ar eyou having counselling along with the surgery? because really, the issue with an eating disorder is never food. Unless you deal with whatever makes you overeat, even the surgery isn't going to help.

I wondered when someone would throw their toys out of the pram..til now (apart from one or two stupid posts) this thread has been quite an informed and calm one.

If you read the OP Jaqueline it's not about eating disorders...just obesity in general.

Now I'm sure there are obviously obese people with eating disorders, but the OP is asking about obesity in general so really, there's no need for your attitude.

I don't think Jacqueline was throwing her toys out of the pram - it was quite a heartfelt post from someone who is struggling. I don't think the severely obese make a choice to be that way - frankly who would? and I agree that it is an eating disorder and warrants a bit more understanding and empathy.

Incidentally am still simmering at Deuce's post:

"Oh ffs, eat less exercise more.

It really is not rocket science now is it?

I will await to be bashed by everyone who is over weight and denying it

Get with the programme, I couldn't give a shit if you are fat, I am healthy cos I take exercise. Sorry now!!!"

Can't believe nobody else tackled her on her unwarranted aggression (other than Mamazon). And Deuce - 41, really? I could have sworn the digits were reversed

Time - the point was that to tell an anorexic to eat more is stupid and insensitive as it is to tell and obese person to eat less. Luckily anorexia is recognised as an eating disorder by most (rational) people, where as sadly obesity isn't. Yes I am getting counselling to help me deal with the emotional hunger because obviously without dealing with that surgery is pointless. I begin a months worth of therapy with a leading expert in the area in May. I'm so excited about actually getting help.

Worraliberty - Have I touched a nerve? Could you possibly be one of the ignorant ill informed people I refer to in my post? No need to answer those questions I'm sure we can all draw our own conclusions based on your previous posts.

As far as the OP is concerned I have no issues with it, which is why I didn't mention anything negative about it. The OP is a s far as I can tell is honestly unsure how someone can remain morbidly obese. I tried to answer that a little bit, where I touched upon the loss of control. I can say a bit more if it is needed and have no problem being honest about what I eat and how I eat (I'm an emotional binge eater) if the OP would like more info.

It was also my belief that the OP was not just asking about obesity in general but in fact went to great lengths to explain she was interested in really, really large people who were 20 stone plus. In my opinion this is not just general obesity. Is that OK with you?

Regardless of what the OP was, my post was aimed at the ill informed and their insensitive comments. Once again I would plead with these people to visit a bariatric department, speak with the experts and educate themselves.

If you think I have an attitude because of this, then that is your problem not mine.

I think that's good advice (except my great grandmother wouldn't have thought e.g. cous cous was a food, so not advice to be taken too literally!). The stats re people throwing out lots of the food they buy also suggest to me there is too much "Iceland" type food being bought, which is hard to recycle as leftovers.

I think it also doesn't help that so many people are so busy. If you work FT and have children, fitting in exercise is difficult unless it's something you really want to do.

I've just come back home after a few months abroad, where I was able to join a gym for the amount of time I was spending there (i.e. no mandantory 12 month contract), and the creche was very good, also very good value. I was in danger of becoming a gym bunny! Here, the gym is expensive and no creche at all. So that route to losing unwanted pregnancy-weight gain is not open, for instance.

A TV programme on weight recently, looked at a woman who was very overweight and got her to record what she ate. She failed to record 40% or so of what she ate because she forgot she had eaten it.

I have a friend who is morbidly obese and says she often has no memory of having eaten - eating has become an automatic reflex for her - and it is a psychological block.

I have only managed to lose weight in recent years through WeightWatchers, because I write down every single morsel of food that passes my lips. Unfortunately, I put it all on again once I stopped recording my food intake.

Those people who claim to be baffled at their obesity when they eat normally are often deceiving themselves IMO, though not intentionally

Worraliberty - Have I touched a nerve? Could you possibly be one of the ignorant ill informed people I refer to in my post? No need to answer those questions I'm sure we can all draw our own conclusions based on your previous posts

I'd prefer to answer if it's all the same to you?

Whenever threads about obesity are started, you will always get one or two who post to say they have an eating disorder.

Whenever threads are started about being slim, you always get one or two who post about having an eating disorder.

Whenever threads are started about naughty children you will always get one or two who post about having kids with SEN/behavioural difficulties.

Whenever threads are started about BF V FF you'll always get one or two people who post about being literally unable to BF.

But it doesn't make it wrong to post a thread like this just because of the minority...in other words it doesn't mean this thread is all about obesity bashing or bashing anyone with a disorder...so your first post on this thread IMO was way out of line.

There will always be extremes in almost any subject discussed on here.

Poor old FabbyChic. I just wanted to add a lone voice of support for her post. A lot of what she said resonated with me even if some of it was poorly phrased and wound people up.

In relation to FabbyChic's 'ass' comment. I for one can vouch for this. I went up to a size 20 and began to struggle to wipe. Seriously. So it can happen believe me. I was mortified. It really isn't 'bollox' - to quote another poster.

I personally hate being fat. Yes I hate the way it makes me look but I also hate the way it makes me feel. My knees hurt, my back aches, I get out of breath and sweat more. If I wear skirts in the summer the skin on my legs rub together until the skin is raw therefore I don't wear a skirt even on the hottest day of the year. I could go on.

Yet I still overeat. I have tried to get to the bottom of why I do it, joined slimming groups, bought all the books, had stern words with myself but all to no avail.

I understand that fat people can look and feel beautiful but surely they must have physical symptoms of their obesity as I do. What is celebratory in that? This thread is certainly winding everyone up but then weight is such a sensitive issue.

Also, you can bet your life that in these debates Dawn French is rolled out as the fat woman's champion. Dawn French is probably rolling her eyes in utter boredom. Good job good old Ruth Jones has come on to the scene! (Except sorry girls but even beautifully fat Ruth is losing weight now - she obviously didn't agree with her supporters!).

I think I made it clear in my last post that I had no issue with the thread!

I welcome people who genuinely want to understand or discuss something whatever the discussion or topic maybe. This is why I love MN so much.

IMO my post is in no way out of line as it makes it quite clear that it is aimed at those who have decided to post nasty, ill informed, igorant, hurtful comments.

So I really have no idea why you have such an issue with my posts, why you believe I have thrown my toys out of the pram or why you think I have an attitude!

The thing that I find interesting is that people who are very slim always assume they are healthy. My friend's younger sister is very very skinny, both from genetics and because she barely eats anything. What she does eat isn't healthy (a fried mozzarella cheese stick or two, sugary cereal, McDonalds hamburgers), she just picks at them. She smokes like a chimney and never does anything (works only part time, sits on the couch the rest of the time). She's always tired, etc, yet assumes she is healthy because she is so skinny. She's not toned at all; what there is of her is actually quite flabby. We went on a hike once and she was surprised at my energy. I'm willing to bet I'm healthier overall than she is, even though I'm overweight. One of my doctors told me that actually, that a slightly overweight person who is active is better off than a skinny couch potato.

Mind you, I'm still actively trying to lose weight! :)

You're right Cheerful that is ignorant...although I disagree that they 'always' assume they are healthy.

There are plenty of unhealthy people with poor diets who don't gain weight but their internal organs can be shot to shit just the same as a lot of obese people.

True, "always" was an overstatement. It's just been on my mind lately because of the woman I mentioned in my earlier post. Also, a little girl I know (she's ten) is diabetic and eats way too much candy. Her mother was telling her not to have so much the other day and the little girl shot back "whatever! I'm still skinny! It's all good!" It seems to be the prevailing attitude...

I'm overweight but pretty active. I walk everywhere because I don't have a license and am always running around at the playground and playing soccer with DS. I eat pretty healthfully. I have celiac disease and eat mostly produce and whole foods so that I can be sure there's no gluten involved, I just eat too much. Still, my blood pressure, endurance levels, etc, are always fantastic, and I'm pretty strong really.

But as I said, I know I'm too heavy and am trying to lose it.

caty11 - I was at my heaviest earlier this year (a size 22 and 7 or so stone overweight), and I can honestly say I had no problem wiping my own bottom. I can't see how anyone would at that size unless they just weren't very flexible/mobile - I know that even at my fattest I could sit in the lotus position, and put my feet behind my head (I'll admit it's easier to do now I'm 2 stone lighter, but I could still do it!) which a lot of v thin friends can't. My thighs rub together (they still did when I was a size 12) but they never get sore as you describe.

I do accept some people must have problems with mobility etc due to size but I would associate those problems with being considerably larger than a size 20.

Cheerful, I agree with your point entirely. A close friend my age is a size 6-8. She does no exercise, barely eats (and when she does it's ready meals/cup a soups/dry crackers) and has all manner of health problems, a lot of which even if not caused by her poor diet, are certainly not helped by it. To the casual observer, she probably looks much healthier than me, when actually the reverse is true.

Oh and for the record my mobility may be zero but I can still wipe my own bottom and I'm a mamouth size 32.

I could see personal hygiene becoming difficult if I continue to gain weight, but can not understand why someone fabbychicks size would be having difficulties wiping unless there are other issues she has failed to mention.