or possibly thick/naive to wonder why there are so many staffordshire bull terriers in animal shelters?

[GitAwfMayLend]

I know bugger all about dogs (really really want one but am not going to get one because we are out of the house too much) but am looking on animal shelter websites and getting all dopy and feel sorry for the poor bloody dogs.

Is it because they are too difficult to look after? Or more like they are badly treated.

It's bloody sad.

Thinking of sponsoring a dog because I can't have one.

The problems are numerous, In no particular order:

1. The reputation of the Staffie deters many from adopting them. I have 3 dogs sitting with my 2 DDs tonight... you won't read that in the Mail tomorrow though because "Dog sits on sofa and hurts no-one" isn't news. Attacks are rare but when they occur they're sensationalised by the bloody press. Then there's anecdotal deterrents - "I won't have a SBT because my brother's girlfriend's neighbour once got bitten by one.". Well, sorry, I got beaten by my husband but I don't recommend instant divorce and celibacy to every woman in the world as a result.

1. Snobbery. They aren't your average middle class dog and some won't own one purely on the basis of not wanting to be associated with the image of the stereotypical SBT owner.

1. Ignorance. Many believe that a rescue dog is "damaged goods". On here, the bastion of educated parenthood, many will tell you "You never know the history of a rescue dog, it's too big a risk to take", to which I often pop up and yell "Bollocks!". Many rescue dogs come from family homes and are there due to no fault of their own, owing to divorce, redundancy, eviction and soforth. Thousands of rescue dogs HAVE known backgrounds AND a decent rescue will ALWAYS assess the dog REGARDLESS of what the previous owner tells them.

1. Many don't microchip - a lost or stolen SBT looks much like the next one. Once in the pound he has just 7 days to find his owner before the pound can kill him.

1. There are fuckers out there who are still breeding these poor creatures and ignorant people who will go to breeders instead of rescues. They either do so to make a fast buck, to "let the kiddies see puppies in the house", "because my dog is pretty and nice natured" (so are those who will be killed in the pound in an hour's time, you stupid prick) and soforth. There is no excuse for not neutering/spaying except in exceptional medical circumstances.

1. People are far too quick to assume that a dog is automatically a risk and, when a baby comes along or the babe starts toddling, will get rid of their dog.

1. Not spaying and neutering and believing that a bitch should have a litter before being spayed.

1. Buying a dog on a whim from a 'backyard breeder' - that's the dork who bred his bitch so the kiddies could see the pups being born or to make a few quid on the side to you and me - and then realising that they can't cope/don't want the dog. Where does the dog go? If they'd adopted from reputable rescue they'd be able to return the dog there at any stage in the dog's life - but the backyard breeder won't take an unwanted dog back once he's pocketed the money, will he?

1. Certain areas these dogs are being bred fror fighting, there's no denying that. Incidentally, that doesn't equal a dangerous dog... it equals a dog-aggressive dog, which is completely different from being human-aggressive and, contrary to popular opinion, the two are not natural bedfellows. It sure does put people off from adopting even the most innocent of family pet SBTs though.

10. In short...because of PEOPLE, not because of the dogs!

Off topic (story of my life on here!) but Val, could I just ask you very genuinely, when my husband and I wanted a dog we approached a rescue centre who turned us away (quite sniffily!) because:

we work full time
we have a young child

this forcing us if we wanted a dog (which we did!) to go to a breeder and buy a puppy. She isn't left alone all day as she goes to 'doggie daycare' and DS is sensible and very kind to animals, partly because he is a sweetie like that and also because he's been brought up to be gentle and kind with them.

I feel really awful reading this :( but do you think the centres themselves could do with being a bit more flexible? x

I would say the reason any dogs are in rescue is due to irresponsible breeding. Staffies have been overbred because they became popular (one of the reasons good breeders dread in a way 'their' breed being featured in a new Disney film or winning at Crufts as it means they'll suddenly become popular). Staffies are the only breed the Kennel Club have ever asked people to stop breeding.

People often breed for all the wrong reasons and often with good intentions. Sometimes because they aren't aware of the rescue situation or the responsibilities breeding dogs brings and think it would be nice to have a puppy to keep from their pet dog, or because it would be nice for the DC. Sometimes they want to make money and think it's an easy way. Sometimes they're aware of the rescue situation etc and just don't care.

Then there are people who buy puppies. They don't always do their research (how many people think the local paper or online puppy sales websites are how you find a puppy?) and so don't know where to get a responsibly bred puppy. Some people want a puppy but aren't really a suitable home, so cannot get a puppy from a responsibly breeder, but they think they have a right to a dog, so then go to puppy farmers or back yard breeders who couldn't care less what home the puppies go to as long as they have the cash.

Of course, not starting out in the right home means things aren't likely to go well, then because the breeder isn't a responsible one, what does the new owner do with the dog? Sell it in the paper or online or take it to a rescue, especially if they were so much the wrong home and maybe the breeder so bad that the dog now has behavioural problems.

Good breeders will choose homes very carefully. They will vet people thoroughly and make sure they have seriously considered all eventualities and are a good home for a puppy. They will also make sure the buyer understands that if they cannot keep the puppy at any time in it's life, they should return the puppy to the breeder and in fact, are expected to do so. Then they will ensure they maintain a good relationship with the buyer so that the buyer is likely to return the puppy to them if they can no longer keep it, as well as being available for lifelong support which obviously reduces the chance of problems or problems that get out of hand. Of course, it's no absolute guarantee a puppy they have bred won't end up in a rescue, but it goes a very long way to prevent it happening.

Crashingwaves, rescues all have different policies, but I am a breeder (I like to think a respnsible one!) and I simply wouldn't home a puppy to someone who worked full time. No decent breeder I know would.

That's not to say it can't work, but when I can choose homes for my puppies where someone is home full time with them and can give 100% of their time to them, why wouldn't I choose that?

I would also be very reluctant to home to a family with small children. I might choose to, but the only time I have ever done so, the puppy was returned to me and it's the only puppy that ever has been, all the rest are in the original homes, including one witha family who emigrated to Canada and took their dog with them.

I personally wouldn't have a dog if I worked full time.

Every time I read someone nice and responsible like you writing a post like that "crashing" I reach towards the keyboard to agree with you and to sympathise.
But then hard, cold, cynical, heart-wrenching reality kicks in.

As much as I agree with you I have to say I understand part of the refusal by some rescues - and that word "some" is very relevent - not to home to families with young DC.

These are rescues who have no doubt had more than their fair share of what can only politely be described as idiots darken their doors. Let me give you two examples that I personally have had recently... the family who want rescue to take their Rott because he licked the child's face and they consider him a risk and the family who want rescue to take their GSD because he ignores their clamouring-for-GSD-attention toddler and they consider him a risk to the child. Let's forget that big breeds like Rotts and GSD are feckers to home at all, where the feck do these idiots think the rescue places are coming from? I can't just magic them up, rescues across the UK are full to the brim!

You see the problem? Rescue has had it's fingers burnt too many times with PFB parents who are so quick to dump their dogs for the imaginary "good of the child" that many are unwilling to take the chance these days. We know it's not in the dog's interest to live with a family for a year and then get dragged out of that home - nor is it in dog or child's interest for Tarquin to 'climb all over' poor Rover - so many rescues now say go away and come back when your DC are older.

Sadly, you suffer because of the bloody idiots out there. And there are a lot of 'em!

BUT.... not all rescues have a blanket policy on children and when confronted with this problem I'm always anxious to point that out. If you're rebuffed by the first rescue, try another, and remember that some (breed rescues especially) will rehome across the country so there isn't always a need to keep your search local. Just continue to seek for those which neuter, vaccinate, assess, chip, homecheck and offer lifelong support and a promise to take the dog back at any time if needed, no matter how long in the future and you'll be fine.

WWRT working hours, many rescues that I know of would accept you but would want evidence of a practical, reliable plan - be that MIL coming in, DH popping home at lunchtime, doggy daycare or a sitter/walker. Having a long conversation with those who work generally very quickly identifies those who genuinely will put in place a plan and those who are paying lip-service to the idea... you get to know what to ask, what to pick up on and how to "read" people after a while!

Our local shelter rold us that Staffies and Collies were their most regular residents. They were very amused to hear of our adoptee...a gorgeous, soppy, nutjob of a Staffie/Collie cross! She's been with us for a couple of years and whilst she is hard work we wouldn't be without her.

I think it is all a matter of perception and poor breeding, a real shame.

It's just awful, isn't it? I cannot understand some people's mentality - our dog is a member of our family and I'd no more rehome her than I would DS!

Midori how lovely, what breed? I can understand the point of view with the FT working thing. The thing is since DH works shifts and my dad also comes here and has DS for two days a week there are only three days where dog would be left to her own devices - so for the three days she goes to 'dog nursery!' I'd never, ever leave a dog at home on her own all day.

I do see your point but I suppse, I don't know really - how many people realistically have a household with one person at home all of the time? Perhaps more than I think!

I know my reasons for wanting a dog were (in no particular order)

• you can't stay in a bad mood with a dog around!
• I feel safer in the house with the dog: she'd never bite but she would bark and hopefully warn off an intruder.
• exercise and walks, I feel we're all loads fitter since getting the dog.
• friendships, we know so many dog owners now :)
• she and DS are inseparable. I do know what you mean about young children but he is just naturally a very caring little boy, I'm not boasting about my parenting skills exactly as he's always just been very "nice" and kind.

She was a bonkers puppy - really sweet and adorable but Hard Work! She didn't chew much really but her energy levels seemed out of proportion to her size. Since being a year old she's chilled quite a bit and still loves walks but then falls asleep on the bay window (her favourite spot, she sits there and woofs huffily at people walking past!) She's hard work at times, but like DS, I can't imagine life without her. I tell her everything and it's weird but I honestly believe she knows not only my mood but DS' and DH's - she will sit and listen quietly if one of us is upset and if someone comes home in a good mood about something she gets excited too!

Sorry that turned into a LONG post about my dog - I'm just trying to show we are loving owners, lol!

staffys are lovely dogs and as Personalclown says have a lovly "smile" but sadly Idiots buy them as accessories, then have to give them up.
I have had 2 and they are lovely dogs, but like all dogs they need good owners

I would love a dog & am always perusing animal rescue centres (in particular Many Tears, in Wales). Although I feel desperately sorry for the sbt's, the boxers & the GSD's, I would never seriously consider one because, in my opinion, there is no room for error in them. I've had a little nip (my fault) from a westie & was ok. I think I would have lost my finger had it been a SBT.

IMO it takes seconds for an animal to turn, maybe mistakenly, like the little 7 year old girl that was attacked & in today's paper, playing in the garden with her friend.

I suspect the dogs mentioned above are fabulous dogs for people without kids (& I cringe when people are proud that their DC's "pull the dog around & make it wear hats"). In the meantime, I'll stick with my cat & the wait until the DC are older.

It's very sad. I've only "met" one Staffie, she had been abandoned on a bus. I'm much more of a cat person and I found her rather terrifying looking, but when we got off at the same stop I couldn't let her wander off. No chance of getting anyone from Battersea to collect her as it was Sunday afternoon, and I couldn't take her home because of my cats. The pound at the local police station had been closed years ago but eventually they agreed to get someone from another station to come and collect her, which they did after a couple of hours... she was a lovely friendly dog, no-one came forward to claim her and she went to Battersea later that week. I do hope she found a good home, she certainly deserved one.

My sister found two labradors near the motorway the other day. According to the vet both had given birth very recently and looked to be at the end of their puppy-bearing years... so presumably had been dumped by unscrupulous breeders

Why am I an ignorant idiot for getting my dog from a breeder?

Maud, I hate to tell you but probably that Staffie died in Battersea. It isn't a "dogs home", it's a pound for almost all, if not all, London's boroughs and it has an appalling PTS rate.... although I hate the euphemism put to sleep and would rather we were honest and called it a kill rate. They simply have more dogs coming in than they can care for and do NOT have a "no kill" policy. Staffies, Rotts, GSD, Am Bulls, Mastiffs, anyone who is old, ill or deemed to be "unhomeable" will be the first to die after they have served their legally necessary 7 days in Battersea and in many, many pounds (Manchester 'Dogs Home' is another) and RSPCA centres across the UK and indeed worldwide. Unhomeable need not be aggressive... it may purely be "too big" or "the wrong breed" or plain "too ugly to be rehomed".

Naming and shaming I can give you Fleet Kennels, one of the recently contracted pounds for Yorkshire, which I hauled a Rott out of after just 7 days of being there and which I learned of by good fortune because a contact of mine who runs an animal ambulance service was asked to deliver there. Fleet admitted to me that they don;t even try to find homes or rescue spaces for big dogs or bull breeds but kill them as soon as the law allows.

I can also give you the RSPCA - one of their inspectors contacted independent rescue to get a Greyhound/Lurcher out of their kennels On thhe quiet and on the sly as he was "too ugly" to be rehomed and was on the vets list to be killed in the next couple of days. Rescue contacts of mine frequently get healthy, harmless RSPCA dogs "out the back door" and into independent no kill rescue because otherwise the dogs will be killed... but if the RSPCA knew what my rescue contacts were doing and where they would throw a fit and put a stop to it.

Thanks very much Val and Midori and others - I really appreciate your posts.

As much as I would love a dog (and I come back to it again and again) the fact that we work FT really puts a stop to it. I totally agree that it is not ideal unless someone is at home for a lot of the day. I have tried to think of workarounds, am more than happy to pay for full time doggy day care/walkers, and my lovely in laws have offered to look after the dog for the day as well. So any dog we get would not be left alone.

However the thing I come back to is that it would be unfair on a rescue dog to have an unsettled time of it. I don't want a puppy, I want to adopt an elderly dog. I think it would be unfair to take in a dog which may well have been in rescue for a long time, and for him then have to get used to a wide variety of people, rather than just one small family and house.

But then I look at dogs in rescue and just feel so sorry for some poor old dogs who may have to spend the rest of their days there. Sentimental old fool.

Plus, also I have not had a dog in my adult life, and think perhaps I am too inexperienced, and that wouldn't be fair on the dog either.

Think the kindest thing would be is to sponsor a couple of dogs and think again if circumstances change.

Must say admire the work you do Val - bloody hell you do work so tirelessly.

Just one thing - can you recommend rescues in Gloucestershire who you think do a good job, think on another thread you say Cheltenham rescue is good, plus there is one near me called Teckles. Thanks.

We're going to fill our home with 'ugly' misfits when we have our small holding, the house is better for them.

crashingwaves, thankyou. They are Golden Retrievers, although I breed infrequently and only if I want a puppy to keep and show, which amounts to once every several years usually. You'd be suprised how many people have one stay at home parent/person in the house and many people work from home these days too. I'm very lucky that I can 'cherry pick' new homes and I admit I do have extremely strict criteria. It does sound like you're a lovely home for your dog and a responsible owner and I will freely admit I would have probably discounted you the second you said you worked full time.

lovingthesun, I also have a SBT x 'rescue' dog. He is no more or less dangerous than my adult Goldens or some of the very badly bred Goldens I have met with very bad temprements. All are largeish dogs that have the potential to do damage if they wanted to.

Rhinestone, IMO, it depends what sort of 'breeder' you went to. I suspect Valhalla may have a different opinion though, but I might be wrong.

Op if you wanted to help on a practical level perhaps this might be something you could consider?

Valhalla can I ask about the Dogs Trust and the Blue Cross. are they rescue centres, with a good reputation? Thanks.

Valhalla I'm shocked to hear I may have unwittingly sent this dog to her death. It's not the impression you get from the Battersea website, where it says putting dogs down is an absolute last resort.

What would you advise doing in a similar situation?

beer Hector is beautiful isn't he. Look at his dear old face. Would dearly love to give him a happy home, with a load of attention and walkabouts.

Hopefully someone will see him on this thread and give him a happy home.

Our dog came from an ad on the Pets at Home website and I admit that I went for one with good spelling and grammar. It was lovely though as it was a small litter (only three pups) and we had one and another lady had another and the family were keeping the remaining puppy.

I have two elderly cats I got from a rescue centre as well, I got them purely because they were old and had been there nine months and I felt so sorry for them. They are both pains in the arse! Miaow constantly, permanently on the wrong side of the door and never stop eating and 'growl' at the dog even when she's not doing anything! (But i still love them!)

Rhinestone, I've been down this road before on here and it turned ugly. Struggling to answer several threads and help 3 dog owners with problems this pm and have injured hand so typing is slow, so will keep this brief with apologies but will come back when I can explain fully tomorrow, here or by pm if you would like.

Very briefly it;s hard for me to come to terms with people buying from breeders when:

A, Most don;t use reputable ones and have no support or willingness from breeder if owner can't keep the dog even in 10 years time, hence rescue has to step in and pick up the pieces. Every rescue space taken by such a dog deprives a pound stray of a rescue place and thus of his life. Most rescues are self funding and not charities, supported by volunteers not paid staff, full to the gills and on their knees in terms of capacity and finance. We're desperate here.

B. Dogs are dying for want of homes every week, literally in their hundreds and more, there can be no justification for breeding more. A stray dog in an English pound has just SEVEN DAYS before the law says he can be killed... and so many are. In Ireland they have just 5 days and in both countries a dog surrendered by his owner may be killed immediately.

I'm English, based in England but used to get Irish dogs out of a particular pound and into UK rescue. Just ONE Irish pound, note. I never lost one that the pound manager, who is/was a heartless bastard, would LET me save... but there were so many that the pound manager refused to let out to safety.

Apologies, I was going to link to those dogs and their stories, including the fights and tears shed in trying to save them but the forum on which they are detailed has moved them to the private section and although I can access them, others can't. Because of that I'll be in big trouble for breaking their rules but what the fuck, here's a C&P example. The OP is the woman who would go into the pound, photograph the dogs and write up an appeal to put on rescue forums, begging for rescue spaces before the dogs died. Upon securing rescue she would help in getting the dogs onto transport to safety. It was and is still my job to find those rescue places and to secure both transport and the money to pay for it - as I said, I no longer do this for Irish dogs but still do so for pound and unwanted family dogs across the Uk. "Rainbow Bridge" is a euphemism for doggy heaven:

"Rainbow bridge today.

We have asked for a lot of them to be held for us, but it�s not our choice what is pts and what is safe, we will know the outcome this evening or tomorrow morning

Today myself and X meet the co meath dogs, 3 young pups about 12weeks old, very friendly wee bunch and warden said will hold these for us till tomorrow..Then in the next pen we have a sable collie and black lab x, both very friendly but will be pts. Then in next pen we have 3 dogs, springer x type very friendly wanting love, another sable collie x who was happy smiling at me and playing with a bowl, an a black collie x who was full of funny and wanted to play with greyhound next door then he was playing with a dish looking for food, yep there was a surrender black male greyhound next door, he will be pts if not already while I type this. Then another greyhound, a young girl white with cream splashs on her, sweet lady who knew her faith and she was scared. In the next pen 3 more, black old greyhound with grey muzzle about 5/6 I�d think with 2 young dogs, and female gsd x about 9months full of fun and happily playing with a wee tanned young terrier with long legs, maybe bit of lucher in her.
I was upset this morning and felt bad petting them as I was giving them false hope that someone would come for them to help, but then I thought they got a tiny bit of my love and ann love this morning and a pet and rub which they probably hadn�t had in a while, got a few smiles from the happy one who knew no better what was to come, I hope now they are running in the sun at rainbow bridge and dancing among a little stream there.

I have photos loads of photo but the ones that hurt are in my head.

Will post photos in a bit, I think they deserves their picture up to show all that they were nice rehomeable dogs if given the chance, and then if anyone as lost any of these dogs they can wrong no more as they know now where they are"

Oh God Valhalla, I don't know how you do it, I'm quite tearful reading that. I'm guessing that our family wouldn't be considered because of DS/FT work? It just breaks my heart :(