kids going to school hungry and tired

[dearyme]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-13081777

is this poor parenting or real poverty - or a mixture of both?

More than three-quarters of 627 primary, secondary and college teachers in England, Wales and Northern Ireland who responded to the survey believed they taught pupils living in poverty.

Of those, 80% said students came to school tired, 73% said they arrived hungry and 67% said they wore worn-out clothes or lacked the proper uniform.

The problem with the free swimming is that parents still had to pay. I took my two dd's a few times but it was still expensive as I had to pay. Plus with two dc under a certain age you can only go in the baby pool. However, I do not feel that neglect is always down to poverty. I grew up in a large family and money was often tight. Money used to run out before the end of the week but our parents went without to ensure we were properly fed. I had more than my fair share of hand me downs but they were always clean. Washed by hand or in a top loader with a mangle. In fact my dad used to give up his holiday to work to earn the money to pay for our uniforms.

Shocking, NJK.

Abfab - I think what I wrote was an extreme.

Yes mellow - I was agreeing with you.

Yes I also sympathize with the noting of neglect among the well-heeled.

diabolo Fri 15-Apr-11 12:41:51
And sadly most of these kids will grow up with the same low standards and low expectations (of the world and themselves) and the cycle will continue.

Probably most yes, but not all. My DH was one of those neglected kids in the 70's and 80's. He and his brother only had 1 set of clothes, their school uniforms. They wore them everyday, and slept in them. They would starve from Thursday through till Monday when their mum got paid. They were in and out of care their whole childhood. Their mum wasn't and alcoholic or junkie but had severe mental health problems which meant they lived complete squalor in only 1 room of their 2 bedroom house. They were never washed and neither were there clothes.

As an adult DH goes over the top to make sure our dds have everything they need. He's quite anal about it. It's very sad what he went through as a child.

I take on the point about free swimming.

I live in a deprived rural area- we are very lucky to have a mobile library van visits our street once a week run by the local council. My kids look out for it at the same time and listen to the toot toot.

It costs nothing to join and books are free to borrow- they don't even charge fines for late return, yet the number of families who don't use it astounds me.
I see neglected kids standing outside the van, or popping in to use it, but they can't borrow any books because their parents haven't bothered to join and get a card for their children.

It''s the same families- and I hate to be judgemental. Yes these families are living in poverty and have social issues, but it angers me when they can't be bothered to sign up to such a valuable service that costs nothing.
I just don't get it.

Perhaps they can't read very well.

I hadn't thought about that. But wouldn't books help?

... and try getting support for mental illness. Some of theses parents deserve sympathy, as society neglects them.

Yes I agree to some extent, but I know some of these families well, they live just a few doors away. It's hard to be sympathetic when I see them drinking and smoking in the garden with friends till 2am while the 4 year olds are running about in the street.

When my uncle was a child his family lived in a car. He has been a hard working man all his life and if anything has spoiled his own children to compensate for his own childhood.

My mother's family were poor. By any stretch of anyone's imagination they were poor. They lived in a flat in a shared house (in now leafy Islington) and the only toilet and running water was down 3 flights of stairs. They ate a cooked breakfast every day. My grandmother was as proud as Lucifer but when my aunt got into the grammar school and grandad was an strike pay (a pittance) she borrowed £100 to pay for her uniform (it frightens me to think how much money that was in 1950 - DS's private school uniform doesn't cost that now) from the community nurse who had been saving for years but whose child had not passed the 11+.

This is sounding a bit "we grew up in a pothole in the road" but I am so proud of what my grandparents were prepared to put themselves through to raise their five children.

It isn't poverty; it isn't only poverty, anyway. You can be poor (and no one is poor in the way my grandparents were then) but what we are talking about here is neglect. I bet the majority of these "poor" parents can afford to drink, smoke and purchase scratch cards.

I agree with abfab and gooseberry - it is very shocking to think of the neglect that some children have to face - trying to find answers is being constructive; I agree a lot of help both financial and otherwise just does not seem to help in some situations so we need to ask WHY? Of course some of the parents will have lots of problems, but as mentioned some of them just don't have a clue and/or don't give a hoot about it.....to put my tuppence worth in with regards to childbenefit I would slowly phase in just receiving it for the first two children which is the average...

On a different note, someone was saying about donating secondhand baby stuff etc, I have a friend who works in a child center, she was telling me about some of the poor mums who had literally nothing and just didn't understand about basic babycare (freezing cold newborn babe in cardi and flimsy buggy etc) She asked the center for me and they gladly accepted my old pushchair and baby clothes (went to above mum) they were very grateful, so it might be worth a try to ring a center near you as could go to someone very deserving...also I just don't get the 'shame' thing in accepting second hand - we were brought up in older cousins outgrown clothes and I love getting hand me downs from friends and buy on ebay - also some churches collect for womens refuges and are desperate for baby/kids clothes and also stuff for the mums especially underwear and personal hygene stuff - you sometimes can try and help in a small way

That's an uncle by marriage, to make it clear.

Georgimama I agree. I grew up in poverty. We had no telephone, no fridge, no central heating. Money was very tight, and there was not much food. But we had enough. We grew veg, there was plenty love, my Dad would make toys out of scrap wood when we had no money to buy them.

I never felt poor, because my parents had their priorities right. It's only looking back now that I realise how poor we were. But I had a fantastic childhood!!

Georgi - oh I so agree.

My parents were raised in not dissimilar circumstances.

If we made fewer excuses for useless parents and more provision for their children, we might actually break the cycle.

Jesus Christ.

I have just googled a retail price index inflator and calculated that £100 in 1950 was equivalent to £2,599 now. That actually makes me feel ill to think of my grandmother taking that debt on to send her daughter to grammar school.

Education is a way out of poverty, your grandmother was a very wise woman, as was the community nurse. My father escaped the same way.

Children definitley need more provision. It seems to be going into care or nothing. The care system is not perfect thats why they get left with less than ideal parents. But what then? Nothing.

Isn't it a pride thing as well?

Just as I personally wouldn't dream of going to work (I am a teacher) in dirty or torn clothes I wouldn't send my child in them either.

I remember my brother starting secondary school and he used to walk there with a friend of his. One day my mum discovered he hadn't been wearing a vest and hit the roof, screeching that the other parent (of the boy he walked with) would think she was a negectful, terrible mother! We giggled about it at the time (not in front of her!) but actually I now think she had the right idea.

She still sent me out in shellsuits though so maybe not ;)

It depends on situations though

DS2 goes to school tired and in worn out shoes; he's tired becuase we have two ASD kids, one who is up pretty much all night; his shoes are worn ATM becuase Dh is a student and a very late Easter has emant stretching the grant an extra month, i'v managed to save up for new ones before he goes back but couldn;t (they were expenseive ones from the sales, hadn;t expected them to break in a few weeks but ds2 has some dyspraxia so gets through shoes at the rate of a pair a month at times due to gait).

There's no respite, young Carers has stopped taking siblings and we can't exactly shift Easter. I don't think we are neglectful though; quite the reverse, we've had so many social services assessments due to the boys and they are very happy with us.

I would never ever send a child in without a decent brekkie though, and whilst ds1 often disposes of his I have taken him for eating disorder therapy so a different thing.

It's true that there are people you cannot help; I know first hand as that was my job previously. The vast majority did want helping though and were able to move forwards.

Pride is a key but how do you force older children to conform? Seriously, advice welcome: SW and I sat for ages trying to work out how to get DS1 (AS) to change his pants and bath now he is 11.

I grew up in poverty I guess, deprevied estate; I have a good degree and should have a MAstrs within a year, DH should graduate with his degree at the same time. But there are some things that no amount of education can provide for: caring, and I would suggest MH issues in the case of the mum with the binbags.

There are lots of groups of 'poor'; people like us who are ducated, happily exist in second hand, prioritiese good food etc but have ahd a run of bad luck. those who come from a poor background they've never shifted- either not knwoing or wanitng to, usually their kids are wellc ared for and loved. Those who don't have the skills or will to cope who should have SSD intervention but rarely do (and the current discussions on removing responsibilites of the state by Eric Pickles covers social Services interventions so do have your say if you think they matter). And there are those who would love to do better if they are shown how and given a chance; often they have a depressive disorder or are doing quite well comapred to their own chaotic upbringings. You can help 3 of those groups and SSD need to be closely invovled with the other. there isn;t the funding. At HomeStart we used to turn away 2/3 of our applciants because we didn;t have the volunteers to go around. Social Services fiunding shrinks. Society loses.

I think MH issues in the mum with the binbags too. New uniforms aren't the support she needs because it's not curing the real issue. The fact that so many are being turned away from home start is sad.

I'm guessing if they have ASD it's quite a unique situation, Peachy - I don't really know the best way to manage that. It isn't quite the same thing, but my brother (who also has Aspergers) is 32 and insists on wearing the same ripped tracksuit bottoms and huge, filthy grey hoodie every day. I have told him he looks like a tramp but he just says that he is comfy. There is no reasoning with him so I do appreciate your dilema.

I think with non SEN children though it's easier to put your foot down and to establish clear rules and so on. I know a woman with three children aged 2, 4 and 12 and they are all filthy, eat rubbish etc. I went to lunch with her once and her two year old had a burger and fries and she couldn't cut the burger up and her mum just sat and watched her. It's as if some people just literally have NO common sense at all!