kids going to school hungry and tired

[dearyme]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-13081777

is this poor parenting or real poverty - or a mixture of both?

More than three-quarters of 627 primary, secondary and college teachers in England, Wales and Northern Ireland who responded to the survey believed they taught pupils living in poverty.

Of those, 80% said students came to school tired, 73% said they arrived hungry and 67% said they wore worn-out clothes or lacked the proper uniform.

I don't know Mellowfruitfulness - I was a governor at a very deprived secondary on special measures in London when my own DC were babies and still cringe at the deputy headmistress forever saying that the school couldn't possibly teach its students that drugs were a bad thing when their parents used them or that it might be better if they waited until they had jobs and homes and stable relationships before starting families because their parents hadn't done that and it was wrong to imply criticism of their families. That's what I meant by the liberal left - the well meaning, clap trap brigade.

Also, when my DC outgrew the cot, and the crib, and the high chair and all the other paraphernalia I contacted SS and the local HV to ask if they would be of use to them. I was told they only provided new things because of elf and safety and second hand just wouldn't do. The HV phoned me back two weeks later because she had a teacher on her books whose husband had left her and she knew my DC's old clothes (a bit older than hers) would be appreciated because they would be good quality and she wouldn't feel ashamed of them! The equipment went to the home of an investment banker and the clothes had already gone to my godchildren.

Sometimes the priorities astound me - my children's clothes used to be supplemented from Tesco and Asda (sometimes were almost all Tesco and Asda) - with the good stuff for special occasions only! That way they could get as dirty as they liked.

I have worked in secondary and primary schools over my working life and yes, this definitely happens.

Some children really do come to school hungry, tired and in dirty, tatty clothes.

A teacher or TA can tell the difference between a bit of smudged whiteboard pen or every day muck, but notclan, not looked after - it does stand out.

I have washed childrens clothes before for them in the school laundry. I have given children clean underwear before from the school spares. And I have bought a child lunch from my own money beore too.

Sadly it does happen. Generally schools are aware and are monitoring and do pass this information on to the relevant agencies.

Makes note to:

Wash children more often
Wash uniform more often
Chuck out all the uniform which is tatty and manky and holey and too small( infact may have too buy new uniform as it all is like that)
Buy new shoes
INSIST ds' eat brekkie
INSIST little DS gets more sleep and doesn't play video games!
Send a better balanced packed lunch
WATCH ds clean his teeth and brush his hair before school!
Make sure ds 9 doesn't tell anyone that he now has a doorkey and has to let himself in as mum is picking up sibling from different school!

Mine must be top of the list for neglect!
Paranoia sets in!

I think you've rather missed the point jendot.

Onceamai, yes, there are lots of head teachers with strange ideas. Some of them even used to think that you could beat poverty out of children - just as whacky (excuse the pun!)

The ideas come depending on the fashion. What never changes is child poverty and neglect, sadly.

I have had similar experiences with trying to donate equipment. Mad.

I dont think its poverty, mainly parenting. Throwing more benefits at people wont make them wash clothes, replace them or buy extra food. Neither would I class not going to the cinema a poverty either.

Every child currently gets child benefit, most families get tax credits - not to mention the fact that parents should be financially providing for the child/children themselves anyway so no excuse for lack of food or clean fitting clothing.

I think it is the fact that benefits are more than just covering the basics that we have so many neglected children.

Extra children means extra benefit. Couple that with a complete of opprobrium wrt teen pregnancy/multiple kids with multiple partners and you get the Shannon Matthews effect. Neglected, unloved kids being born because , well, why not have them? Society doesn't frown and the Govt gives you cash.

So rather than more generous benefits reducing poverty, I think they cause an increase in it. They certainly contribute to more children being born to feckless parents who don't give a shit.

You couldn't have said that on mn a year ago. You'll get called on it now but basically it wouldn't have been said a year ago.

Why not gooseberry bushes? Do we not have freedom of speech here?

I think you will find that it was said ,several times a year ago

That attitude has been around for a while, unfortunately

You don't think there is a grain of truth in it, then usualsuspect?

How do you explain the estate Shannon Matthews dragged herself up on?? Hundreds of women with numerous children by numerous fathers ? Why is that? bad luck?

We are all entitled to believe what we wish to .

I don't know why -- it was just a different mindset. No one would ever have spoken to you ever again.

Actually I've been here for a fair few years and I've said what Abfab said on plenty of occasions.

It's a legitimate viewpoint.
Poverty, neglect etc have not decreased but risen under increasingly liberal regimes and increasingly generous benefits.

If ambition is the greatest contraceptive then it stands to reason a lack of ambition removes the need for contraception.

oh yes that's right louise

but you hear it a lot more now, I suppose I was exaggerating

You know the difference between a kid who's between jumper sizes and mum's trying to squeeze a bit more wear out of it (heck I used to timetable art for Friday afternoons so it didn't mean a mid-week uniform wash for parents) and a kid who is coming to school in a white polo neck that's gone a shade beyond grey, with skin ingrained with dirt, who smells, is invariably riddled with headlice and has rotten front teeth from no one ever helping them to brush it, pale drawn faces with massive shadows under their eyes... sometimes with very limited language development as well because no one's ever had a talk WITH the child... very different from someone looking scraggly, with a jumper wearing this morning's toothpaste that's been passed across siblings - there's utterly utterly no comparison... and sadly there are teachers up and down the land finding uniform out of lost property, keeping museli bars out of their own wages in the desk drawer for these kids, slipping them extra fruit out of the breaktime batch, taking them into the staffroom to make toast cos they're starving... in probably ever city and town.

These days I would say very little surprises me - but sadly it continues to get worse and worse.

God, teachers are bloody brilliant.

Teaching in a deprived area takes a really special person, thank god there are so many of them. And they don't get paid NEARLY enough.

usualsuspect I think you once called me a Tory Troll for expressing a similar viewpoint to AbsolutelyFabulous.

Please can I ask you (as someone on the opposite side of the political spectrum to me), what your ideal solution to this cycle of poverty / neglect would be?

emptyshell - ''it continues to get worse and worse''

How long do you think it has been getting worse? And why?

The article in the OP or another I read about the same survey didn't address whether this was the case. IME life is detiorating for deprived children at home and at school.

I could give you my theory but it involves over population and some Darwinian theories. They've never been terribly popular on Mumsnet but I think you can get the gist :o

I'm firmly in the , " If you can't feed 'em, don't breed 'em " camp which seems to get beardy liberals awfully hot under the proverbial.

I think I've got one white polo shirt wearer in my class. All the rest are a shade of grey, jumpers with holes in, dubiously fitting trousers. Somehow the parents of the girl spend time putting glitter on the kids' hair but not checking for nits. Boys have transfers on their arms that stay for literally months.
Poverty? Nah. Uniform is cheap. Parents can all afford mobiles, ciggies and booze.

Getting your kid to bed or organising some breakfast? Too hard it seems.

They squeeze these kids out, push em round in a buggy (whilst shouting down their mobiles which are permanently clamped to their ears) park them in front of the telly and bring them to school for us to do the parenting. Only then can we educate them. We don't or can't always get to that bit.

But where's the disincentive to continue to breed, Spinkle?

Oh, there isn't one. Not while Jonny Taxpayer continues to pick up the fags/booze/mobile bill.

agree abfab, so so depressing

Is there anyone you feel any empathy or compassion for? Just interested. Because if you can't feel any compassion for the people who are described on this thread, who do you feel sorry for? Animals?