to object to terms such as manageress or authoress?

[MaundyBra]

It was mentioned on another thread but was really a side issue, so I've started another one.

or -manager is one who manages who happens to be male and manageress is one who manages who happens to be female?

Are there any other languages who operate a masculine and feminine? I know french does, but not in that way? or does it?

I get that it's the 'tagging on' of a bit after the main word.

it's all 'of man', isn't it? wo-man. of-man. the male and then the female add-on.

YANBU. No need to state that the person in the role is a woman.

I detest "ess"!

Altinkum - I already explained above why I think it it patronising. It's sexist to point out that the job holder is a woman by adding the suffix, rather than the perceived "norm" which is a manager or author.

I'm sorry I don't follow your user-name argument.

I think most European languages do, Hecate. French, as you've said - German, Spanish, Italian... all have the masculine and feminine.

Maybe I should have put this in the Feminist topic

altinkum.... nouns can be patronising, surely? What about calling a woman 'broad' or 'sweetheart' - those are nouns and I'd flip if some stranger called me those!!

worraliberty, I think it's patronising cos it identifies gender over and above the role, if you see what I mean. (Not sure how clear I'm being ).

Like, actor or manager simply refer to a function: one who acts, one who managers.

Whereas, actress = actor + feminine ending ess = actress
manager + fem ending ess = manageress

It's taking the basic role and then adding a gratuitous 'oh look it's a woman' to it.

Just think about how weird it'd be to say teacheress, officeress, it'd be obviously making a point. So I don't see how manageress is different in that respect!

Whew, essay :)

prince and princess?

what would you suggest with those titles then?

Ah you've got me there squeaky! But they're not referring to a job function though.

Well squeaky if we abolised the Royal Family then we wouldn't have those problems, eh....

YANBU!! Glad you started the new thread as I was itching to reply again on the other one but didn't want to hijack.

But now that I have a chance to reply, you and RevoltingPeasant already made all the points I wanted to re: why it's a patronising term. :)

I think the peasants are revolting....

Maundy... Perhaps!

Now, what about further education? The dreaded 'Masters' degree? What is to become of it?

Pointing out someone's gender is not sexist OP

Imagine "Plumberess" or "Mechanicess"

Hmmm 'Mistress' degree does tend to conjour up a different image altogether 'Lying*

Worraliberty... It does, doesn't it.

squeakytoy "prince and princess... what would you suggest with those titles then?"

Prince and princess get and carry those titles by the virtue of their birth and sex. Female professionals get their positions due to their achievements. Maybe that is the difference. Also why there will never be a 'Presidenteress' but a 'President'.

"Pointing out someone's gender is not sexist OP"

I agree. But taking a perfectly good job title and having to change it to single out the fact that a woman is doing the job is imo.

it's interesting that high status, professional jobs don't ever have the ess added

• doctor
• lawyer
• accountant
• teacher
• dentist
• barrister

and so on.

this is quite revealing : becasue those are high-status it doesn't sit comfortably to use the demeaning 'ess.

On the other hand, waht jobs is is the ess common?

• waitress
• actress
• seamstress

I agree OP!

It is the assumption that a manager MUST be male. Therefore we'd better think of some other word to show that its female...

OP Yanbu in my opinion, but I would not get too uptight about the people who still cannot decide whether to move into the XX century.

Lawyeress?
Doctoress?

Pointing out someone's gender for the purpose of differentiating them from the 'norm' and putting the emphasis on their gender rather than their role is sexist, worraliberty . OP has already made that point.

x post - was just about to go down the same line of thinking as stubbornhubby