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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think it will all kick off on here after this is aired?

1004 replies

MsScarlett · 11/04/2011 21:21

My mum just texted me to say that tomorrow there is a documentary on BBC3 at 9pm called, "Is Breast Best?".

I predict a bunfight! Grin

OP posts:
ArthurPewty · 12/04/2011 10:00

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

rollittherecollette · 12/04/2011 10:10

This reply has been deleted

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sausagesandmarmelade · 12/04/2011 10:15

I think people are making things up as we go along...

The suggestion that BF babies are less likely to be fed crap when they come off milk (and less likely to live in poverty) is just laughable. I know a large family (on benefits) with 9 kids all BF...who eat mostly processed junk....and look pretty pale and sickly.

and I know another family who are middle class with 2 kids (bottle fed) who have a very healthy lifestyle, lots of exercise and a good healthy diet.

This 'debate' has reached a new low.

Confused
candleshoe · 12/04/2011 10:27

Seconded sausages!

Anyone got any 'proof' or 'long term' studies to show that FF children eat more junk in later life or are always from the lower sectors of society!!!???? Or are you just making out dated hurtful class based bigotted accusations?

How horrible and judgey!

pommedechocolat · 12/04/2011 10:37

How can ff babies always be from the lower sectors of society if they are the majority? So, again, unless the majority of the population is always eating junk you cannopt also say that ff babies eatn more junk later in life.

sausagesandmarmelade · 12/04/2011 10:41

candleshoe Thanks.

pomme LOLs re the sliding cakes...

It used to be said that FF was more a middle class thing...

I think some people just throw random things into the pot to stir things up a bit. Sad behaviour!

Mumofaflump · 12/04/2011 11:05

In my experience the first few weeks after giving birth were hell anyway. Hormones all over the place, flipping exhausted, emotional, scared etc etc. What a woman needs at that time is support, an understanding ear and possibly a large cup of tea. What she doesn't need are judgey-pants comments from randoms. Whatever method she is using.

I chose to BF but at 3 weeks I was suffering from PND and came to think that it was the BFeeding that was causing it. I dreaded feed times and began to resent DS. I would not go onto FF though as I was afraid of being labelled a "bad mother". It took DF sitting me down and pointing out that in order o be a competent mum, I needed to be happy.

I now mix feed, and am happy with this decision. It's my choice and I have decided that if people don't like it they can sod right off.

Programmes like this are designed to sensationalise and attract viewers. As previous posters have said, a reasoned and balanced debate without stereotypes would be boring and no one would watch.

Crikey, that was a bit waffley!

bristolcities · 12/04/2011 11:14

Really well said Mumofaflump. I really can't see how any one can disagree with that.

Spudulika · 12/04/2011 11:16

"The suggestion that BF babies are less likely to be fed crap when they come off milk (and less likely to live in poverty) is just laughable."

Children who are ff are more likely to eat a crap diet in later childhood, not because they were formula fed, but because they are more likely to come from social backgrounds where both formula feeding and consumption of processed foods are common.

And if you're interested, there's also a strong correlation between formula feeding from birth and smoking in pregnancy. Not saying one causes the other, but hey ho - those are the facts, and very interesting.

"How can ff babies always be from the lower sectors of society if they are the majority?"

Nobody has said that ff are 'always' from the lower sectors of society.

Here are the stats if you're interested. From the Department of Health Infant Feeding survey, which involves around 8000 mothers and is done every 5 years. BTW - by 'breastfeeding' they mean 'breastfeeding on discharge from hospital', so it will include even those babies who have been mixed fed in hospital, and stop breastfeeding within the first week.

"As found in the 2000 survey, there was a clear association between breastfeeding and
socio-economic status. Across the United Kingdom, 88% of mothers in managerial
and professional occupations breastfed initially, compared with 77% of mothers in
intermediate occupations, and 65% of mothers in routine and manual occupations.

Breastfeeding rates among mothers who had never worked were similar to those
found among mothers in routine and manual occupations (65%). This association
between socio-economic classification and breastfeeding was evident for all countries. "

"spud I really wish you would stop implying that people who dont bf do so because they think its less convinient or as some kind of lifestyle choice"

From the 2000 DOH Infant Feeding Survey:

"The most common reason for choosing to breastfeed was that breastfeeding was best for the baby?s health, followed by convenience. The most common reason for choosing to bottle-feed was that it allowed others to feed the baby, followed by a dislike of the ?idea? of breastfeeding."

Interestingly, those mothers who were most likely to return to work after the birth of their baby (who one would assume would have a very strong reason for wanting someone else to feed their baby) also had the highest rates of breastfeeding. The lowest rates of breastfeeding are found among women who have never worked.

Spudulika · 12/04/2011 11:20

"What she doesn't need are judgey-pants comments from randoms."

No - and you'd hope that what a new mother would be getting would be clear, unbiased and good quality help from health professionals to manage her feeding difficulties, whether she was breastfeeding or bottlefeeding. Plus a kind and non-judgemental listening ear.

I don't think anyone here is advocating routine haranguing of new mums by bf advocates are they?

houseworkwhore · 12/04/2011 11:21

There is another programme on thursday about pregnant mums and smoking and what they eat. Also on bbc 3 at 9pm.

(Sits back and waits for the fireworks)

Mumofaflump · 12/04/2011 11:22

Thank you Bristolcities!

Spudulika · 12/04/2011 11:26

Meant to add, that bf initiation rates for female doctors in the UK are around 98%.

I think it would useful if more people were aware of that.

Mumofaflump · 12/04/2011 11:29

Spud - I am quite a shy individual, I lack confidence. When I read these sorts of threads it can and does make me uncomfortable. Even though no-one is directly saying "formula is bad" or "breast is pointless" I can see how a struggling new mum who is looking For support could be confused further or made to feel that their decision (whichever it is) is the wrong one.

Spudulika · 12/04/2011 11:37

Fair enough Mumofaflump.

It is a complex and difficult issue. There's no way around that.

rollittherecollette · 12/04/2011 11:38

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Mumofaflump · 12/04/2011 11:44

Also, unfortunately it is not always the health professionals that do the judging. It's the braying yummy mummys at every baby group, the woman who tuts when she sees a mum pull a bottle out of a changing bag, the stares in a cafe when a woman latches her baby on. It's the normal, everyday population who are unable to accept another persons decisions who are the problem. As far as I am concerned if the mother is happy with her decision, she will be delighting in feeding her child, and that child will be feeling loved, and that is just as important.

Steps of her pedestal and hides behind the sofa again

Mumofaflump · 12/04/2011 11:46

Why the flippin' heck can I not spell today?!?

BoysAreLikeDogs · 12/04/2011 11:50

I can honestly say with hand on heart that I never had a look or a tut or anything when mine were babies

tethersegg · 12/04/2011 11:52

Is it time for the stats and research yet? I love that bit.

I adore stats, especially when they imply cause and effect.

That's why I'm going to stop global warming by becoming a pirate.

As you were.

Haven36 · 12/04/2011 11:53

I think it is all down to personnal preference. I tried to breastfeed my first son did for a day but it became too stressful so gave up and not much support to be honest. Daughter i didnt bother, she was cs and had toddler so didnt even try. With my youngest i did it for about 6 weeks, i loved breastfeeding and i had much more support with my youngest at hospital and at home plus more time but i still felt uncomfy doing it in public so used to express. All my children are healthy and happy and that is the main thing you have to do what works for you and your baby. To make someone feel guilty over their choice on how to feed their baby is wrong.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 12/04/2011 11:54

I can see I'm going to be the only one here NOT watching the programme. I'm completely uninterested in seeing a JK-esque 'documentary' on this subject.

Why will women (and I think it IS women), keep foisting their views of the correct feed method on other women. It really is nobody elses business, it's between mother and child and for some, it is not a choice.

I sometimes wonder if this is why women are considered the 'weaker sex' - not because we can't all routinely benchpress 100lbs but because we don't stick up for each other's lifestyles but find endless time to judge them. Sad and pointless.

storminateacup10 · 12/04/2011 12:02

well put berrieberrie Grin

BF or bottle, every mother does what she feels is best at the end of the day- and there is no evidence to support the fact that after 4 months of age BF is better (this from a paediatrician friend who has done research on the subject and is very pro BF)

predict the BF mafia will be out in force Grin

Spudulika · 12/04/2011 12:04

"Spud- you seem to be using a survey carried out by the DOH as justification for your earlier comments about non bf mums"

What earlier comments?

"As far as I am concerned if the mother is happy with her decision, she will be delighting in feeding her child, and that child will be feeling loved, and that is just as important."

Maybe. Some mothers breastfeed, find it difficult but want to do it. Some mothers choose to ff but go on to find feeding worrying and difficult. Sometimes you 'delight' in feeding your baby. Sometimes you are focusing on something else and just want to get it done. That's true of both breast and bottle feeding. It's not the milk that communicates the love, it's the way the mother engages with and responds to her baby.

Breastfed babies get sick less often because their mother's milk protects them from some illnesses. It's got nothing to do with how loved or otherwise they feel. Mums who ff their babies love them just as much. But loving your baby won't protect them from respitory or gastric illness. Breastfeeding does.

[disclaimer here - before someone comes on and makes a point about PND - which can be triggered or complicated by bf difficulties - being linked to poor emotional health and development in babies, I'm not saying that women can or should bf 'no matter what'. But there is a long way between finding bf inconvenient, embarrassing or hard work (all of which feelings are common in the first few weeks after birth) and finding it totally unmanageable physically or emotionally]

PiousPrat · 12/04/2011 12:08

tethersegg I think I love you swoons

I was going to break out the 'my height as a child against China's population' graph that my stats lecturers always used to use to reiterate that correlation doesn't imply causation, but global warming and pirates is so much better :)

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