To think it will all kick off on here after this is aired?

[MsScarlett]

My mum just texted me to say that tomorrow there is a documentary on BBC3 at 9pm called, "Is Breast Best?".

I predict a bunfight!

Ffs, looks like this program will label all teen mums lazy and all bf mums hippy milk Nazis! I bf all 3 and couldn't be more diffrent, dd, healthy ds sick baby with astma ect, same with my mum who ff me and db, he was sick kid, I was fine, he's an idiot, I'm... Not, lol.
I bf out of lazyness, can't be arssed with more washing up! ;)

"and there is no evidence to support the fact that after 4 months of age BF is better - this from a paediatrician friend"

Your friend ought to get in touch with the NHS, the WHO and the AAP as they all support breastfeeding beyond the first year.

It's rubbish to say there's no evidence that breastfeeding has any benefits over formula past 4 months. There are dozens of good quality studies showing a range of benefits to babies, from better oral development to improved mental health in childhood.

"but because we don't stick up for each other's lifestyles"

Oh no - I totally stick up for your right to eat alfalfa sprouts for breakfast, practice yoga every day and go on foreign holidays four times a year.

But I also think someone needs to speak up for most vulnerable and voiceless people in society - newborn babies - to receive the safest and best nutrition for the first few months of their lives. And in order to do this women need clear information and good support.

Nobody can force mums to breastfeed and should never try. But there's a moral imperative for society to STOP commercial forces who stand to profit from a woman's decision not to breastfeed, from shaping and influencing women's choices with partial evidence, and by emotional manipulation through sophisticated marketing strategies.

"correlation doesn't imply causation"

No it doesn't.

I think I've made this point.

Twice.

PiousPrat, I think I may have been a little premature... It seems we're still in the anecdotal stage.

I think there's still a place for you to stop the Chinese population explosion by stopping yourself growing. There's always a place for that.

I was lucky and was able to breastfeed all three of my children, but I hadn't been prepared for how something so natural could be so difficult. Fortunately, my husband had been to some excellent NHS ante-natal classes with me and was very supportive and helpful, and a wonderful agency midwife in the hospital had shown me how to feed my first dc whilst lying down in bed (no doubt the kind of thing you could get away with 14 years ago), so I could have my dd in bed with me at night. I did this with all three.

My sil didn't breastfeed as her own mother was totally unsupportive and insisted she bottlefeed. I think there is some taboo with some new mums around breastfeeding which stops them considering breastfeeding and I'm sure it's this more than anything promoters of breastfeeding want to overcome.

I remember once feeding my dd in the reception area of a garage whilst I waited for my car to be available, with plenty of mechanics around. Prior to having my first I would never in a million years of imagined I'd do something like that! I just told myself that if anyone was upset by it, it was their problem, not mine. Very convenient for me and dd!

I had an avalanche of support and information in the early days of BF, but I chose to stop at 10 weeks becuase I was going insane. I had plenty of milk etc but could not bear the feeling of being so tied to DS, and I was developing PND. Ended up with a full blown meltdown and my (very pro BF) mum giving me 'permission' to use a bottle. I had never even considered using FF but the moment I did, it was like being let out of prison. I developed PND anyway but at least I was able to get out and get some time on my own.

My point is, I wasn't tricked by a FF company into thinking I needed their product, I actively chose it myself. Nor did I quit BF due to lack of support - I had loads of support. It just wasn't for me in the end.

So we can educate women and support them until we are blue in the face, but in some cases they will choose FF regardless of how much information they have, or how much support they get. We will never have a situation where FF is only used by those who physically cannot BF, it is unrealistic.

I also think "society" needs to take responsibility for BF rates. It's ok to have a good leer at page 3, but get squeamish redarding breastfeeding. Woman are made to feel uncomfortable and exposed because we have been cinditioned to see breasts as sexual objects. No wonder people who breastfeed can get evangelical. It's probably the counter to a patriarchal society!

my mum would probably say suck it up love, this is what having a baby is all about. in fact, she did say (in the hideous first weeks as i wept through every feed, with a tt ds and open wounds on my nipples) just get to six/eight weeks, it'll be a totally different situation by then. and she was right. thanks mum. it was a bit of a nightmare until about 4/5 months actually, and then the sleep regression hit etc etc. it never really became easy peasy. it was often a challenge. but sometimes, as they get older, you get the most beautiful moments which really make the whole thing worth it!

i do think we are a little too focused on convenience of the adult these days, in many respects, not just feeding.

its the majority of women that want to breastfeed but for some reason stop by two weeks that i think is just bizarre, and very sad, and a reason that we need more support or a reality check 'it might well be shite ladies but stick with it' type of thing?! what is wrong with british breasts? or is it an attitude thing?

i am interested to see the programme but suspect it will be pants.

Spudulika I don't think anyone is discounting the health benefits of breast milk for newborns (although I concede I may have missed it, I am still getting used to the layout here) but I think perhaps what is being suggested is that it is not the consideration in dciding on a feeding method. There is ability, practicality, personal preference and mental health factors, not to mention physical health such as medications being passed through the breast milk. All those things have to be weighed against the health benefits to reach a conclusion that works best for the family concerned.

As an example of physical factors, I have Hypermobility which causes me a massive amount of joint pain. I am currently 19 weeks pregnant and can't take any painkillers. The only ones I have found that are 'allowed' during pregnancy, I am allergic to. The only painkiller that works for me is Tramadol, which I can't take while pregnant because the half life for me is 300 minutes, for the baby it is 200 minutes but because of size etc means the build up would be massive. After giving birth, Tramadol is passed through the breast milk and the half life for the baby rises to 3,000 minutes. If I took it at the rate I was using it pre-pregnancy, I would give my baby an opiate overdose within a week. If I take one single dose, my breast milk would be tainted for about a week afterwards. I am just about managing through other pain relief methods right now, although this may get trickier later in pregnancy as my hormones make my joints relax even more and of course they won't just ping straight back after birth so while I fully intend to BF for as long as possible, there will come a time when the benefits of having my milk simply don't come close to making up for the baby having a mother who cannot lift or bathe him, or sobs in pain all the time.

Yes breast may be best where possible but to play the guilt card and imply that anyone who FFs is doing so out of selfish motivation and putting their own wants above their babies needs is frankly cruel and narrow minded IMHO.

I think I will send DH here for a kicking. He came over all 'bf-Nazi' when we were watching the trailers for this. I told him not to be such a twat but he gave me a little lecture about it. I might add I fed all of mine for yonks so I did n't really need the lectiure - I just think there is room for all shades of opinion. I was quite surprised at him. But then again he is getting old

Tethersegg, sorry, I let the side down by going all anecdotal

In my defence, I have now stopped growing so at least the Chinese overcrowding problem should now be in hand.

Stuff "suck it up love" I tried that and it was pants. How far are you supposed to suck it up? We all have different pain thresholds,babies,bodies,births,families,children,life circumstances etc,etc. One size does not fit all and I will not be told by anybody to sacrifice myself on the alter of motherhood just because they did on one issue of many.

Every single bloody day I try to do my best,bf is yet another thing I tried at hey ho it never worked out,not exactly worth eternal damnation is it?

Motherhood is one long "suck it up" and finding a balance with all the zillion issues/choices that crop up to suit children,families and mums is what counts.

scottishmummy, why do you always join these threads to have a passive aggressive dig at "some (unnamed) other MNers"?
In fact if we're all words on a screen how do you even know it's the same people each time?

Mainly wot hec sed.

But, what always interests me about these threads is that the vast, vast majority sit somewhere along the lines of 'well as long as it's fed', 'bf is obviously the mammalian norm but there are reasons why ff is used instead '. The idea that there is this massive bf v ff war or that there are bfer nazis or poison toting ffers is based on nothing substantial. It's too emotive. There can never be a thread on here about bf/ff without it descending into personal anecdote, anger, accusations, misunderstanding and hurt. Because feeding your baby was part of an extraordinary event, suffused with emotion.

I'd really like a proper documentary on the real issues around bf/ff. Namely, issues with good realistic and factual information and support and a look at the politics of feeding children, particularly with relation to formula as an industry. Not very entertaining though is it?

I agree with many of Spud's comments above. There is no disputing the benefit's of bf over ff, although of course it's the mother's choice. I suspect that much of the hysteria around this topic comes from ff'ing mothers who get defensive. I don't think they need to be defensive, but to recognise that they have made a free choice, and that bf still remains the best and most natural way to feed a baby.
Somehow in this country (maybe Europe more generally, not sure), bf not really seen as 'standard and normal' (if only), but a kind of niche thing promoted by a small clique of allegedly hippy types. I know there are people who say they weren't able to bf etc but I wonder whether this is just us rather uptight, angsty westerners feeling it's something that has to be 'worked at' to 'achieve', rather than what I imagine occurs in most of the developing world, where (for both cultural and material reasons) bf seen as completely automatic, routine, normal, nobody makes a fuss but just gets on with it instead of all this agonising we do.

i join most threads to have a snigger not just bf/ff..and believe me there is plenty here to raise a chuckle. can just smell the indignation and hear the rise of hackles

DS1 got both (I was ill after he was born, so we made a very poor start with BF), DS2 was exclusively breastfed.

From my point of view, breast was best. So much less faff and formula is just so bleeding expensive.

And as others have said, breastfeeding is what our boobs are for. It's a natural thing that we're programmed to do. It's not the easiest thing in the world for everyone, though and I think the amount of real practical support for breastfeeding for most people is severely lacking and there is so much misinformation. How many people, for instance have been led to believe that a growth spurt inspired nursing marathon is a sign of not producing enough or good enough milk? How many mothers have ever even spoken to non-extremist mothers who have breastfed their own babies?

Chances are I'll be watching CSI, instead, tonight. This program just looks to be intended as pure entertainment. I might watch it if ever it's on when there's nothing better on.

MoP There is plenty of disputing by both sides, hence the tedious number of threads on this subject. I supspect that much of the hysteria comes from BFing mothers who get offensive. I don't think they need to be offensive but to recognise that they made a free choice and that bf remains the cheapest way to feed a baby.

I do hope you have a new dress for becoming a pirate Tethers. Probably new shoes needed too.

"I supspect that much of the hysteria comes from BFing mothers who get offensive". I suspect it's neither bfers being offensive nor ffers being offensive but offensive people being offensive.

I see as many offensive posts from bfers as from ffers. Their method of feeding is irrelevant, their choice to offend is. And for each one of those, I see thousands of posts from people in the middle. Some not caring, some baffled, some doggedly trying to give good, factual information regardless of the hyperbole and some just enjoying the show.

I think from a scientific point of view BF is best because of antibodies etc. I think there is no argument there. You'll always find someone who has perfectly healthy children and have been bottle fed (I'm in perfect health and was bottle fed) but I bf my kids who are also healthy. The scientific research is clear that however the majority of the population are better off if breastfed. Also obviously it is cheaper. All the rest (bonding, convenience) is debatable.

That said there is no point in judging anyone. Not bfing does not make you a bad Mum just like BFing doesn't make you a good one.

I reckon I can just steal them off other seafarers, no MissBeehiving?

I thought that was the point of being a pirate. Well, that and stopping global warming, obviously. Duh.

I thought the point of being a pirate was the linguistic opportunities.

Avast ye breastfeeders.

This here be my special peg leg.

And I don't know what splicing a mainbrace is but I would like to shout it at an inopportune moment. In a library maybe.

I don't think many people would argue that breastmilk is best for a baby, but whether or not the process of breastfeeding is best for a baby or a mother is another matter.