To think it will all kick off on here after this is aired?

[MsScarlett]

My mum just texted me to say that tomorrow there is a documentary on BBC3 at 9pm called, "Is Breast Best?".

I predict a bunfight!

It will probably be like that extreme breastfeeding one, there must have been a huge thread for that one, can't remember. I can just picture it now, council estate Mum who chose not to bf (must get a shot of her with a fag, for maximum ire), lentil weavy lactivists who think dummies are akin to child abuse. Cba to watch, it's all so boring, do what the stuff you want, just stop wittering about it.

One still has to interpret those statistics though Spud It could easily be construed that a 'routine' occupation could include for example a factory worker who sits at a machine all day, or sitting at a desk doing data entry whereas a 'professional' occupation could well include a social worker out and about doing visits so moving a lot more. In those circumstances it is entirely plausible that 2 women could eat exactly the same diet, with the same genetic make up (metabolism etc) yet over time, the extra movement during the working day of the social worker would mean she burnt more calories so maintained her weight, whereas the desk worker's weight crept up due to being static for a significant portion of the day.

You could also argue that since those stats don't give ages, that routine workers tend to be lower paid so work later in life whereas professionals tend to earn a higher wage so can afford to retire earlier, thus taking themselves out of the running to be included in those stats at the very time of their life when the metabolism naturally slows and weight gain is more likely.

In that respect, quoting statistics is fairly pointless in a debate as there will always be some pedantic sod like me who will point out the flaws of generalised statistics :)

its true, the programme makers approached quite a few well know lactivists but found them too rational so didnt interview in the end! for that alone that cherry woman can knob off

Oh god, not class and obesity as well , well hides thread anyway.

That goes for an against either side of any debate BTW. I am not picking on either side of the debate here, just pointing out the flaws in generalisations in any debate, especially one over something which is as highly personalised as feeding method.

Sorry but who the hell is that Cherry woman anyway, is she famous or just a random woman?

linky

Sorry I will hide it but it puzzled me, I watched about 5 minutes of Cherry has a baby, because Iwas bored I thought she must be famous or noteworthy in some way. Nope, appeared to be an hour long prog about some random woman having a baby , I'm supposed to care because????

a documentary on BBC3?? There'll be a sensible reasoned argument in the Sun next.

The documentary maker has just been interviewed on Daybreak, says she wants to stop women feeling guilty if they encounter problems and wants more support.

"says she wants to stop women feeling guilty"

Oh right. How's she going to do that then?

Mixed feeding worked for me and it probably does for the majority. So this is not a black or white issue and can't be forced into black or white - sorry.

Animation - I think generally media discussion of bf/ff in this country doesn't acknowledge that most bf babies are also having formula.

"Mixed feeding worked for me and it probably does for the majority"

If this issue was ONLY about what 'works best' for adults it would be much easier to discuss.

Is this the warm up bunfight?

ladyintheradiator, people who want to cast doubt on the value of breastfeeding will ALWAYS use anecdotal evidence to do this because it's pretty much all they have.

That was a great post. In fact please can we arrange for MNHQ to pin a copy to the door of the Breast and Bottle Feeding topic?

It's normal, right?

I think Hecate's post is very disingenuous - manages to say something to placate everyone while completely ignoring the fact that it's NOT always 'fine' when a baby doesn't have its mothers milk. The difference in health outcomes for bf and ff babies is the rationale for the promotion of breastfeeding by health agencies by the NHS.

i think i am perming that cat at that time

shudders at watching such a programme

BORING

I take your point spud but you can't deprive women of choice. It's the formula companies who should be looked to really.

BF is apsolutely the best way to feed a baby, however, there is no acknowledgement that it isn't always possible - even for full term perfectly healthy babies.

I am not talking about the 'difficult' stage of learning how, or waiting for your milk to come in etc. It is literally impossible.

When I had my ds1 I really wanted to bf. There were pictures all over the doctors, health centre and hospital showing how bf is best for baby. There was no way I wasn't going to give my ds the best I could.

When I had my ds1 I tried and tried and tried to bf. I stayed in hospital 5 days to try to get him to latch on with all the 24 hour on hand support I could need. I could still not get him to latch on. We ended up feeding him by cup rather than try a bottle.

After 5 days I had to go home as there was no need for me to be in hospital other than the bf issue. The morning I went home, the midwife sat me down in a small room and said that they had to encourage bf but in my case it was unlikely to happen. She said that in the developing countries if the mum was unable to bf the baby would be wet nursed, but if the baby was unable to bf it would just die. She said that is a major reason for such high infant mortality.

I still ignored her advice and instead hired a professional breast pump to get my own milk for him to feed by cup. I used this for a further 2 weeks - even then this was barely more than a teaspoon full after over an hour of pumping.

In the end my health visitor told me that unless I went on to a bottle my ds1 would need to be readmitted back to hospital. It seemed both he and I were unable to bf.

I was so upset and my health visitor said that my life as a mum I would feel guilty over so many things, bf was only the start. Bf is important but there are many more important things such as giving your dc time and patience etc throughout their life.

I truely believe that this terrible start was a major factor in my PND.

My advice now (3 children on) to other mums, is if you can bf great, try and try but if it doesn't happen and you are struggling so much that it is making you miserable, don't worry about going on a bottle. It isn't the end of the world and isn't what counts in terms of being a good mum.

Have posted on the website. Looks like a crap show, I'm not expecting mature debate on it!

"but you can't deprive women of choice"

No - of course not.

But I'd like debate to be more evenly focused on the health needs, and quality of life issues for babies and not just be about what suits adults.

Pingu - I can see you had a really hard time and did everything you could to give your baby your milk. But for every mum who will never make enough milk for her baby, or whose baby will never latch on, that there are dozens who are stopping who could have continued with the right help and encouragement.

I think it's great to be able to say to a mum 'don't worry about going on a bottle' but it's dishonest, because we can't know that this is true for that mother or that baby.

"The morning I went home, the midwife sat me down in a small room and said that they had to encourage bf but in my case it was unlikely to happen".

Hmmm. If you go over to the breastfeeding boards and trawl through their archives, you'll find stories of babies who were very slow starters. Some babies take weeks to learn to breastfeed.

"She said that in the developing countries if the mum was unable to bf the baby would be wet nursed, but if the baby was unable to bf it would just die. She said that is a major reason for such high infant mortality."

That's an awful thing to say. Actually the reason for high infant mortality rates in developing countries has very little to do with outright failure of breastfeeding, which is very rare. It's got far more to do with inappropriate use of formula, poor maternal nutrition in pregnancy, poor living conditions and injuries sustained around the time of birth. It was wrong of her to imply to you that lots of babies can't breastfeed and would die without formula.

spud I have no idea how she is going to do it, I guess anyone interested will just have to watch the programme tonight to find out.