To think it will all kick off on here after this is aired?

[MsScarlett]

My mum just texted me to say that tomorrow there is a documentary on BBC3 at 9pm called, "Is Breast Best?".

I predict a bunfight!

I disagree Spud I have no idea how you can conclude that people who feed their kids shit and make them obese are least likely to breastfeed?

Look at the statistics for childhood obesity...you can't blame it on FF or BF...just parents who feed their kids shit and don't encourage them to exercise enough.

But sadly the kids who are most likely to be fed shit in childhood are also those least likely to be breastfed as babies

All 3 of mine were bf and occasionally eat a fish finger or ten, I think that is a sweeping statement that cannot be backed up by any facts at all

'Normal' doesn't rhyme with 'breast'.

Saatchi & Saatchi wouldn't touch that one with a ten foot pole.

Oh yes, judgy pants on here too - alert to all stereotypes the prog will use though Will watch anyway, just for fun!

OK the breastfeeders will all have long hair and wear hippy-type clothes

"All 3 of mine were bf and occasionally eat a fish finger or ten, I think that is a sweeping statement that cannot be backed up by any facts at all"

Children from the lowest social classes in the UK are

most likely to eat a poor diet full of processed food
least likely to regularly eat fresh fruit and vegetables
most likely to be obese
least likely to be breastfed.

There is a very clear correlation between poor diets in childhood and low family income and education.

There is also a very clear correlation in the UK between social class and likely hood (and length) of breastfeeding.

Can give you references if you like, but this is common knowledge.

Someone will mention "bf nazis" within the first 5 minutes, and someone else will point out that bf mums make ff mums feel guilty

some folk on mn fight ff/bf all time.don't need tv prog as an excuse
they will come armed with stats, research,anecdotes from shitsville uni,and a fair few harrumphy faces and some hyerbole

so really just business as usual

wait - why is the latest anti bf thing on mn about feeding kids junk food? how does that counter argument even hold water? just how??

Totally agree Worall. Far too much hysteria over breast feeding and not enough looking at the elephant in the room is what doesn't help this country's rocketing obesity levels.

There are far bigger issues effecting the health of modern day kids in far bigger degrees. For some reason all the hot air and debate focuses on bf.

Oh and obesity crosses all social classes as does ff.

See the sterotyping is out in force already.

But children from the lowest social classes aren't all fat are they?

Obesity is not a class issue...it's a widespread problem right across the board.

My point was that you are suggesting that parents who ff will then go on to feed their children shit which I think is an unfair assumption. Just because a baby is ff doesn't mean they are from a "lower social class" likewise a bf is not automatically going to be eating chickpeas and sunflower seeds.

Clearly you do have facts to back up your statement, I stand corrected

wait - why is the latest anti bf thing on mn about feeding kids junk food? how does that counter argument even hold water? just how??

I don't think it's the 'latest thing' it's just my opinion.

And my opinion is...there is no point in arguing that BF or FF is best for babies if you no longer give a shit what they eat once they're old enough to chew.

Clearly the obesity statistics show that there are far too many parents who shovel junk into their kids mouths because 'they're fussy eaters'

God forbid any of these parents should insist their children eat a healthy diet and get enough exercise to keep them healthy.

I think this may be the thread to combust MN.

oh i doubt it.same ole same ole. same fights.

I would consider myself to be middle class (though my mother would say upper middle...). 4 children. 2 BF, 1 mixed and one FF through absolute choice. None fat, FF one the most intelligent, one of the BF DDs was the sickliest child of the lot. I was 23 when I had DD1 (BF), 24 for DD2 (FF) 26 for DS (both - he was born at 28 weeks) and 38 for DD3 (BF). Wonder what the experts make of that.

"Children from the lowest social classes in the UK are

most likely to eat a poor diet full of processed food
least likely to regularly eat fresh fruit and vegetables
most likely to be obese
least likely to be breastfed.

There is a very clear correlation between poor diets in childhood and low family income and education.

There is also a very clear correlation in the UK between social class and likely hood (and length) of breastfeeding."

I agree that there is a clear correlation between socioeconomic level and education level, particularly with regards to health and nutrition. I think that has more to do with any obesity level that method of feeding though. To imply that low levels of breast feeding go on to cause a diet of junk food is fallacious. It is however reasonably accurate to say that a high level of junk food causes obesity.

Just because I am in a pedantic mood, correlation doesn't imply causation

worral - sorry if that came accross as a personal dig it wasn't i promise, just read this alot very recently on the feeding threads.

i think its naive to think that obesity isnt a socie economic issue though. of course it is. i'm sure theres plenty of statistical evidence to back this up too. obviously being middle class doesn't make you immune to being fat but poverty by its very nature is more likely to result in poorer health and nutrition outcomes. plymouth (where i am) has a deprovation and obesity problem - of ocurse they are not mutually exclusive.

I'm impressed that this one is kicking off at the mere mention of a programme about bf/ff though, sm. It's like they can smell it

Tethers!!!

for some people its their mn raison d'être.so no they wouldnt miss an opportunity to flex their fingers or participate in a rumbumptious manner

"there is no point in arguing that BF or FF is best for babies if you no longer give a shit what they eat once they're old enough to chew"

It's complete and utter bollocks to use this argument. Concern about how babies are fed tends to go hand in hand with a general interest in child health.

Most people who are strongly in favour of breastfeeding feel that way because they believe children have the right to be fed the most appropriate and safest diet possible - from birth onwards.

Posters on mumsnet on the other hand put lifestyle choices and the feelings of adults at the centre of this issue and have very little to say about the experience of children. It just doesn't really feature much as part of the discussion.

"you are suggesting that parents who ff will then go on to feed their children shit which I think is an unfair assumption"

No - I was suggesting that there is a strong association, not a causal relationship. Maybe I could have said it better.

"Obesity is not a class issue...it's a widespread problem right across the board."

I think it is a class issue.

"Obesity is linked to social class, being more common among those in the routine or semi-routine occupational groups than the managerial and professional groups. The link is stronger among women. In 2001, 30 per cent of women in routine occupations were classified as obese compared with 16 per cent in higher managerial and professional occupations. "

I suspect the fattest children in the UK are children from white working class backgrounds.

No I get your point totally suntangirl

But all the same it seems obesity and unhealthy eating/lifestyle spans all classes and incomes.

I can't back this up with statistics but I'm sure there are fat kids in all walks of life

How they started life...FF or BF doesn't really come into it if their parents allow them to become unhealthy as soon as they're weaned.

Actually that goes for the underweight too.

I just think that FF by choice is a bit mental when you have a perfectly good, free, and simple source in BF. But each to their own.

spudulika - re the fat white children - course they bloody are. but someone will pile in shortly and say how they are white and working class and that no one in their family has a bmi of over 18.