To think it will all kick off on here after this is aired?

[MsScarlett]

My mum just texted me to say that tomorrow there is a documentary on BBC3 at 9pm called, "Is Breast Best?".

I predict a bunfight!

i'm not trying to belittle xstitches experience of these comments. clearly they hurt but the thing is there is always going to be some knob who makes comments like this, not necessarily trying to wound but just expressing an opinion, rightly or wrongly, and the only way to protect yourself i suppose is to come to terms with your experience in any way you can, so that you KNOW you did your absolute best with the knowledge and information you had at the time. that way any old knob can say anything and your reply will be 'bovvered' .

eg. someone could say 'women who have a emcs just cannot cut it on the natural birth scene' or whatever. or they are clearly lazy and give up. and i could take it personally: i had an emcs. BUT i know for a FACT that i did all i could with the cards i was played. massive slap in the face. massive. and i was absolutely gutted. and i cried. i wept for my lost natural, active, yoga birth. i wept for a whole afternoon i think, uncontrollably. and then i got over it. and i look at my dc and i think how lucky i am to have him. and how grateful i am to the surgeon.

again, we are all different and i really don't want to belittle anyone's experience.

xstitch please dont fee you were not able to bf, I am one of those two. The way I see it is that my dd 4 is happy and healthy little girl and thats all that matters, just ignore the nasty comments, they do nothing to promote bf and all to put mums off and reinforce the breastfeeding matron stereotypes.

oh my sorry for the typos, thats what happens with only 4 hours sleep last night

how old is your dc xstitch sorry i didnt have time to trawl through 27 pages of posts.

xstich

You would do better to step away from this debate because frankly people who have never stared into a bottomless pit of despair will ever understand what it truly means. I bf my first 3 but when it came to my twins I was fine for awhile then something awful happened in our lives and I just COULDN'T do it anymore. It used to be called 'being bad with your nerves' we didn't have pnd in those days.

You are not alone pet you are not to think you are, I hope one day soon you can look back to today and say yes I was in a very bad place but gradually I got better, I learnt to be kinder to my self and not live crushed by the judgements of others who actually have no authority over me. Learn to live within your own truth and take strength from the fact you have survived a 'hell' Good Luck Pet

BEESIMO

xstitch has NOTHING whatsoever to feel guilty about...

I tried very hard to BF when I had my little DD...but we both didn't take to it at all. She wasn't happy, I certainly wasn't happy and the best thing under the situation was to switch to FF.

I totally believe I did the best thing for both of us...and am pretty sure it didn't make a blind bit of difference to her health.

By not getting over the mis-placed (sorry my opinion here) guilt...you're not allowing yourself to be totally happy and fulfilled...and THAT could be detrimental. Happy Mum = Happy Baby!

Come on....you have to move on. You did what you thought was the right thing for you both. Can you honestly say that your decision was harmful?

Time to put this all behind you!

Just because you had problems bf and overcame them does not mean others will, one size does not fit all. If we put all of our hands together and compare them we will find that they are different, people are different: physcially, emotionally, social situation what will work for one will not work for another.

peanut thats just it they are said to wound. They are said to make anyone who ff feel bad and make them feel inferior to those who bf. I do think those who bf should be congratulated and I would whole heartedly support a campaign to make it more acceptable for women to bf in public. That would encourage women to bf in future because it would more seem the norm. However this can be done without being derogatory towards those who ff. In some ways it is counter productive causing some not to try for fear of failure.

What I am trying to say is it is OK to say 'hay what's wrong with bf in public' but not OK to say a ff is a bad mother IYSWIM.

I can assure you I tried very hard to give birth 'naturally'. I had contractions 10min apart or less (a lot less for much of it) for 4 whole days. I was just short of full dilation for 12 fucking hours without dd's head entering the birth canal and then she went into foetal distress. I have since been told by the consultant that I have a pelvic malformation which makes it 99.9% certain that I will never give birth vaginally. Me trying is completely irrelevant when you have to stand in court years later and be humiliated for not having a vaginal birth. So yes I am 'bovvered' and tbh cannot see me ever not being. I will NEVER get over it. I will never be allowed to be. HOw would you feel if your dc asked mummy why don't you love me? Well Daddy says you can't because the Dr had to cut me out and you didn't feed me with your boobies.

You cannot know how another feels until you have walked a mile in their shoes but there are people who would benefit from tying to think 'how would I feel if it were me' If the answer is awful then don't be surprised if that is how others feel.

She is just short of her 6th birthday piglet sorry took ages to type my last post.

You have to allow yourself to get over this xstitch...you DO deserve to be happy!

I'm not anti BF myself...but I am anti the attitudes of SOME who have posted who seem to take enjoyment/satisfaction in making FF mothers feel really bad about themselves...in order for them to 'win' the argument.
Other's feelings don't count as long as they are seen to 'win'.

It's obsessive...it's cruel (as I've said before)...and does NOTHING whatsoever for their cause.
As you have quite rightly said xstitch...it's completely counter-productive.

Jackadeck I would have to disagree that the benefits of bf are marginal. For me, the benefits that bf offers to a baby takes absolute precedence over things like going out etc and that does not make me a matyr! I also went through immense problems and pesevered and that does not make me a masochist! I have immense admiration for women who persevere though bf problems especially as I know how difficult it is. This is just what it is and is not a slur or dig at anyone who stopped bf or really could not bf. I think it should be ok to say this and for people not to take it personally.

oh xstitch the main thing is that you had an 'alive' baby in your arms as opposed to a dead one, the main thing is the well being of the baby, if that means a c section so be it. You now have a happy and healthy dd and thats all that matters, i dont think she will hold it against you because you could not bf her. You are a lovely caring, and kind mother and thats all that matters . Ignore the twats who make those silly comments. You are not alone, many people are in the same boat as you.

xstich - I am passionate as they come about bf but please dot think you are judged! You are not! Just because i am passionate about bf etc it does not mean I judge x

Sadly hairful not everyone is as reasonable as you.

harirfullof I totally agree, just because you are passionate about bf does nto mean you judge and make nasty comments, if one is passionate about bf like some others claim to be than you would be doing all you can to help and encourage women and not make them feel like crap.

xstitch - I am horrified by your XH. You should see a solicitor again and see if there is some sort of an injunction you can get to forbid him from saying to your children that your caesarian / formula feeding means you don't love them. It's emotional abuse and it's shocking.

I think you are depressed, because you are taking something that accords with the vast majority of parents' decisions (ie the vast majority are formula fed) and you are taking that fact and assuming it makes you a worse parent than other parents. Do you see what I'm saying? You may have wanted to BF but let's be honest, most parents formula feed and I know you didn't want to but you tried.

I don't think you seeing a counsellor would count against you but would echo what others have said about the NCT helpline. Do call.

But you did your best! You did all you could with your situation so you must not let others affect you! Please enjoy life and your family - that is what is important - not someone judging you and I am sure it's not like that or even if there have been strong opinions on here i am very sure they are not aimed at women who had problems! Maybe it woud help to talk to someone as I would hate to think of this affecting you xxxx

'So next time you judge, just remember it's very likely there is a story behind that mother and baby and it's probably a very sad one.'

I was responding to that comment.

I think Cherry herself expressed this difficulty well. When bf didnt go as planned and you ended up ff when people talk about bf it is very hard not to go back to your own experience and worry and pick a it in your mind. Doesn't mean they shouldn't say it but it does cause a ff who wanted to bf to think and struggle and should be done delicately.
Thought Tijen's midwife dealt with her brilliantly over bf. No strident ff bashing just persuasion to do 3 days for the colostrum. Then look what happened! Goes to show - gently gently ups the bf rates :)
Stop the bashing, the lecturing, the stupid keep calm mug campaign and the stridentness. Lets be gentle and humane.

xstitch yoru X is a big fat stonking knob, ignore the crap that he spews, he is toxic. Why the hell is he telling the children such crap, yes I would be seeking legal advice its not good for their wellbeing at all.

'Me trying is completely irrelevant when you have to stand in court years later and be humiliated for not having a vaginal birth. So yes I am 'bovvered' and tbh cannot see me ever not being. I will NEVER get over it. I will never be allowed to be. HOw would you feel if your dc asked mummy why don't you love me? Well Daddy says you can't because the Dr had to cut me out and you didn't feed me with your boobies.'

xstitch i am so sorry, as my words seem completely meaningless in the face of this. i said before i really hope you are getting some help with this and managing to somehow get your life to a place where you are ok, but truly, that is awful, and tbh nothing like i experienced with my paltry afternoon of sobbing. sorry for your awful loss. perhaps as someone said, you should step away from threads like these which simply serve to rub salt in the wound.

Yes thats was great pommeded thats the way to do it, the every little helps approach. Tejen was a great example of that.

Thanks pigletmania - the worry for me is, that because I am so passionate about bf and if I am honest I do feel that in a lot of cases bf can be achieved with the right help and support through issues/problems (I stress some cases I know not all), some people take that as me judging but it is not that at all. I just feel it is a shame there is so little support and help about what to do to keep going etc

Hope that makes sense! :)

Xstitch - oh my goodness I just picked up what your xh said - I horrified. X

xstitch I absolutely hear you and the pain that is tangible within your posts. I have no advice or help to offer really. But I totally understand your sadness, there is nothing like it to compare it too.

Once again, I did not say that every FF'er was sad and heartbroken with her choice, I asked that you consider that many FF'ers may well have a story to tell that is difficult and often filled with angst.

Also, its not just about BF being too painful, too frequent, or exhausting. Many women end up FF'ing due to strong pressures and opinions from family, partners etc often giving in to these when they are at their most vulnerable.

For me, this resulted in me spending 8 weeks trying to re-lactate to no avail. Weeks of double pumping, setting the alarm to latch and pump over night, taking all sorts of milk stimulant's and travelling to breastfeeding cafe's all over my county.

So once again, all I ask is that you consider and think about the women you are judging. Nothing is ever as simple as it seems.

Apologies Fifi for the wrong quote......

Don't see it as dramatic...perhaps not so well worded..but definitely an element of truth in the statement.

Your X sounds awful xstitch...
I think you have serious grounds for some court action here....including access issues but that is up to you of course.

What I would like to see is you making this year count...moving forward with your life and allowing yourself the happiness that you truly deserve.