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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think it will all kick off on here after this is aired?

1004 replies

MsScarlett · 11/04/2011 21:21

My mum just texted me to say that tomorrow there is a documentary on BBC3 at 9pm called, "Is Breast Best?".

I predict a bunfight! Grin

OP posts:
ArthurPewty · 13/04/2011 16:41

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ArthurPewty · 13/04/2011 16:43

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monkeyjamtart · 13/04/2011 16:48

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Weemee · 13/04/2011 16:56

I stopped breast feeding my dd on Saturday after 15 months, so I found it quite emotional to watch because I miss it .

I thought that it was more an exercise in helping her come to terms with the fact that she doesn't breastfeed and her repeating her reasons for not doing so. I think it showed what an uphill struggle we have to make bf the norm when there are so many people who cannot see past the sexual function of breasts and the notion that it is something strange to do. I think it showed that the support that we need at the start is not there. It also showed me that breastfeeding shields are not well known about!

Personally I think that we really need to look at what we are telling pregnant mums- lets just be honest- it is difficult to begin with, it most likely will be painful to begin with and you will feel like a cow in a milking machine who can't move off their sofa for the first few weeks! But once you get all those things sorted, it is a wonderful thing to be able to do for your baby and for yourself!

There is a problem amongst the professionals who likely inadvertently make you feel a failure whatever you do- breastfeed and struggle- you're not doing it right and you must seek the help; bottle feed because you are struggling and don't know where to turn- you are failing your child!! You just can't win.

There also needs to be a major attitude change towards Bf mums in public. I used a bf shield because I wasn't comfortable bf without it, not because of others, but I still encountered tuts and shaking heads!

I think that the rates would be better if we were just honest with women like I say above.

Cloudydays · 13/04/2011 17:05

Leonie, I don't think it's all that rare, actually. The most conservative estimates from bf advocates (like Jack Newman) put the figure at 1%. That might seem small but it's a higher percentage than that of people who suffer from Type 1 diabetes or Multiple Sclerosis, for example, and those conditions rightly attract both compassion and research funding.

There's a big difference between "diagnosable" and "diagnosed." I believe it's the diagnosis that's very rare, not the condition, and that the incidence of "real" problems is much higher than 1%.

Breastfeeding was important to me, and when my breasts almost completely failed to register that I had had a baby (no changes during or after pregnancy, no engorgement, tiny drops only when expressing, dangerously dehydrated baby, and later, no discomfort or leaking when I stopped bf'ing), I did all kinds of research, figured out that I probably had hypoplasia (where milk ducts don't mature) and presented my consultant with my hypothesis. He examined me and agreed that this was the issue (this was the point where I finally felt he believed me when I said I had no milk) but said I couldn't be officially diagnosed unless he referred me to a breast specialist. I had a 3 week old baby, a post-natal uterine infection, and the ebf ship had already sailed, so I told him I couldn't face going to see the specialist any time soon. As a result, I'm not going to be counted in any "1%" stats of women who physically can't breastfeed.

I'm sure many moms who don't have milk move onto formula without necessarily seeking an explanation for their inability to bf (because they just want to move on from the failure, or because they're embarrassed, or because it wasn't such a huge deal for them). Add to that the fact that many doctors/midwives/lactation consultants are dismissive of women's knowledge of their own bodies and default to the reassurance record ("oh don't you worry, it will come in, just don't give up") when they should be listening (to the fact that there have been no breast changes, there is no leakage, there are not enough wet nappies), and it's not surprising at all that cases of physical inability to breastfeed go undetected. Then, when the milk still doesn't come and the mother finally listens to her instincts, by the next visit the baby is taking formula, and the health pros can just shake their heads and assume that the mom didn't try hard enough / didn't give it enough time. No diagnosis.

I know it's important to keep new moms from panicking about supply and remind them that it takes time to establish, and I know that many women think that they don't have enough milk when they do, or when the supply can be built up with some good advice and commitment. But all the talk about how very very rare real supply problems are (and what was your point in that, anyway? If it's rare should it not be mentioned at all?) can add insult to injury for those of us who experience them.

unsurevalentine · 13/04/2011 17:08

Whose business is it what anyone decides for their own child/lifestyle? Confused

Never understand this big argument but have come to the conclusion its a superiority/insecurity thing.

The worst critics of mothers are other mothers.

I mix fed all three of mine Grin

fifitot · 13/04/2011 17:24

Leatherchair - I wasn't judging anyone. I was making the point that I think it is dramatic to say that everyone who formula feeds is because they have a 'sad story' to tell. If we are taking into account personal experiences - which it seems we are - here are some of the reasons I have been given why women breastfeed:

They want Dad involved in the feeding, they want nights off, they don't want sore nipples, they think it is an 'icky' thing to do, they think babies sleep better on formula. They start it but find it too demanding in terms of time and effort and so give up after a couple of weeks. They have other kids and don't have the time to devote to BFing an infant in the early weeks.

It's up to them what they do, whatever I think. My point is that the idea that FFers have some horrific back story about why they couldn't BF is just a daft idea. Maybe some have but I bet on the whole the reasons most don't do it are like some given above.

Asinine · 13/04/2011 17:34

I had thrush in my nipple and daughter had thrush in her mouth just after her birth. Feeding was incredibly painful, but the mid wife kept insisting I was not getting the right latch. I knew what I was doing as she was dc4 but couldn't work it out. It took me a few days to work it out, and it was fine after treatment. I would have given up if I had not been an experienced breastfeeder.
I am hoping someone else will read this and improve awareness and diagnosis of thrush in breastfeeding

fifitot · 13/04/2011 17:38

And yes lots of women also have problems and give up due to lack of support too.

xstitch · 13/04/2011 17:39

I don't think leatherchair did say that everyone who ff is because there is a sad story. I took form her post that people should stop and think before judging because there may be a sad story because quite frankly we don't know do we?

Yep we are all just daft, ignorant lazy and daft with no stamina, Too selfish to grit our teeth and bear it.

You will all be pleased to know I just got a knife out and punished myself for my obvious pathetic laziness which lead to failure. I hope this is enough punishment for you all. I could do more if you feel it is requires, quite frankly I do.

Oh yes I am definitely insecure. Nst because I am stupid because I have full awareness of what a pathetic excuse I am for a woman/mother/human being.

peanutdream · 13/04/2011 17:39

i think some of the negative comments are unfair. it wasn't claiming to be the breastfeeding documentary of all documentaries - it was a personal journey of cherry wotsit who was quite likable and did make a fatal error in not getting any help with a simple case of mastitis. that was obvious. so if some people have watched it and think ok, i'll get help, or ok, i'll persevere and go to a bf support group then imo that is a very good thing. it wasn't polarised. it wasn't extreme. it just showed some ordinary stories which tbh was all it set out to do.

a mn breastfeeding doco an excellent idea tbh.

fifitot · 13/04/2011 17:43

Noone is saying anyone is daft, ignorant, lazy or whatever as far as I can tell.

God I'm a supporter of breastfeeding but applaud those women who just say 'actually I didn't fancy bfing'. I don't agree with their decision but at least they are honest.

fifitot · 13/04/2011 17:46

And before anyone jumps down my throat I am NOT suggesting people are not honest about their decisions on the whole but there is alot of hand wringing when in the end they took what they thought was the right path for them.

I suspect lots of women on here had to give up for lots of different reasons but don't think mumsnet is representative of the whole population.

xstitch · 13/04/2011 18:00

?they don't have the grit to get on with it and sort out the problems. ?

?Lack of education could be a factor?

?but I made that commitment to them.? Inference ff mothers are not comitted to their dc

?My dogged persistence and refusal to 'give in.' In the same way that women choose to give birth naturally? I didn?t chose to have an emergency c-section either. I would be dead if I hadn?t. World would be a fucking better place if I had.

?What is difficult about it?? With regard to ff the guilt of failing at bf.

?women who choose not to bf do so for selfish reasons?

These are the comments that have made me feel this way. There are mor but can't face trying to find them.

SolarPanel · 13/04/2011 18:03

If it's just a case of which food is more nutritious, then breast milk wins. However if all other factors are taken into account then breastfeeding is not always best, because it may be impossible or unfeasibly difficult (even with all the right help in some cases).

peanutdream · 13/04/2011 18:06

the thing is xstitch if these statements don't apply to you then don't sweat it. if you had a hideous time and just couldn't work it through then, like the emcs, it is a good thing that formula is available. can you talk to someone and set this to rest as you sound pretty cut up about it all Sad.

xstitch · 13/04/2011 18:13

They are directed at all those who end up ff so yes they do apply to me.

MsScarlett · 13/04/2011 18:18

I agree with you peanut. You can rip anything on the telly to shreds if you want to, but on the whole I think it was quite a balanced account with good intentions.

A mn doc is a good idea, but if these threads are anything to go by, it will end up being a load of self-righteous women tearing each other to pieces Grin.

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jeckadeck · 13/04/2011 18:19

allbie I have to admit and this may shock people on here that I find this attitude slightly scary. The idea that it takes 10 weeks of hell before you can do it competently and that women are expected to put everything in their lives to one side to do this and if you don't go along with this you are depriving your child of a healthy future. And this use of the word "grit" as if one is required to subject oneself to a kind of breastfeeding assault course. Maybe I'm really decadent, spoiled, whatever, but I find this attitude puritanical and a little bit masochistic. I couldn't breastfeed. Whether I could have breastfed had I more "grit", had I been prepared to subject myself to daily consultations with a lactation person, had I been prepared essentially to do nothing else with my day for weeks on end, then maybe, yes, I could have bfed. I took a calculated decision that, all things being equal and taking into account what I knew about the health benefits, it really wasn't worth the pain. That the benefits were great, but they weren't so stunningly great that it was worth putting all other aspects of my life like going to the toilet, cleaning my home and occasionally leaving the house -- on hold. This is the nub of it for me. Yes, breastfeeding is better for the baby. And if you can do it relatively painlessly then its a shame not to. But the benefits are relatively marginal in the developed world, or at least the proven physical benefits are. And when you can't do it easily, the idea that you should move heaven and earth to do it and nothing else, and that you are setting your child up for a life of pain and failure by not doing so and should regret it if you can't, seems to me to be ever so slightly hysterical.

MsScarlett · 13/04/2011 18:21

Sorry x thread.

Xstitch the examples you refer to were obviously made by dickheads to be so dogmatic. You sound very down on yourself. Please try to talk to someone in RL. If you were feeling better, you wouldn't even listen to such small-minded comments.x

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xstitch · 13/04/2011 18:23

I will never get over it or forgive myself although yes comments like that make me feel even worse.

Cloudydays · 13/04/2011 18:24

I agree xstitch , it is impossible not to take comments like that personally.

I couldn't ebf so I combo fed. I've bf'd in public and I've mixed bottles of formula in public, and I've worried about getting negative comments in both situations. It never happened, but some of what I've read on MN and other forums is very hurtful, sometimes willfully.

But for me there is no comparison between the hurt caused by negative comments about bf (you think it's gross? you think I should be in the bathroom? you think I'm a bit of a hippy? So what?) and the hurt that can be caused by what comments like those you quoted imply about mothers who ff: that we must not love our children enough to do our very best for them.

That's about as low an insult as can be levelled at another mother, and it's no surprise that you're "pretty cut up about it" in peanutdream's words - comments like that are intended to wound, and they often succeed. I take it personally too.

Cloudydays · 13/04/2011 18:28

x-post, I was replying to your previous post xstitch. I do hope that you can forgive yourself, or better, to come to feel that there's no need for forgiveness because you aren't to blame and there's nothing actually wrong with feeding a baby formula.

You do sound down and I don't disagree with others that RL support might help, but I also think it's a cop out for others to say you (or I) shouldn't take it personally when people make comments like the ones you quoted earlier.

pigletmania · 13/04/2011 18:29

spud one cannot go around beating up themselves and feeling guilty about not being able to bf, what good is it going to do, you cant turn back time. You were lucky to be able to bf without any problems but not all women are that lucky. Yes I felt guilty at first when bf failed, but that is only one part of bringing up a child, instead I read up more on bf and came on MN and found lots of helpful advice that I could use next time if I am lucky to have another dc.

sausagesandmarmelade · 13/04/2011 18:29

When you see a Mother FF'ing you have no idea whether that Mother sits in the 'I am more than happy with my choice to FF' or like me, feeling sad, and disappointed with herself.

What Leatherchair actually said...and she is absolutely correct.

Nothing dramatic about the above statement!

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