To think it will all kick off on here after this is aired?

[MsScarlett]

My mum just texted me to say that tomorrow there is a documentary on BBC3 at 9pm called, "Is Breast Best?".

I predict a bunfight!

counselling should be completely confidential- would your ex need to know? it could help with the feelings of anxiety about feeding that you are having with this pregnancy too.

it is beyond shitty to have had it raked up in court. i hope your solicitor gave back as good as you got.

i really think it is unkind and unhelpful to take a look at how someone feeds their baby and extrapolate from that what kind of a mother they are.

good luck with your pregnancy

'i hope your solicitor gave back as good as you got. '

Unfortunately not chibi he was crap. He didn't really defend me at all on that or the the actual birth accusations, the weaning accusation (this one was even completely inaccurate) the accusations about my health (again untrue) or their claims about my apparent lack of education (irrelevant, completely untrue and easy to disprove).

I suspect he would find out about counselling. All that would need to happen is for one of his friends or family to see me going in or coming out and that would be it.

The programe was good, tried to cover as many angles as possible in a sensitive manner. However I disagreed with one mum who said that bonding is better if you bf. My dd wouldn't say that, the bonding is different when you bf not superior. I have a great bond with dd actually and I only bf for a short while as she had feeding issues and other things

there is counselling that you can access by phone, and he need never find out about that

i can highly recommend the NCT bf helpline - it may seem counterintuitive, but they are completely nonjudgemental, and will not tell you that you shoud of done this or that

they are highly trained, for years and are v professional. i recommend them so highly because i have used this helpline myself, and cried down the phone line, and received much support, and was talked through all the options available to me (i was still in the midst of bf then) without beiong pushed one way or another, or berated for anything that had happened til then

there will also be a lactation consultant associated with your hospital i should think, could your mw arrange for you to talk to this person as part of antenatal care?

i think there is other phone counselling available, CBT stuff, again, your MW or GP might be able to recommend something

xstitch - I think it would really help for you to talk it through properly with someone as chibi says - someone who will not be dismissive. In fact, if you are pregnant again it might be worth speaking to a bf counsellor to debrief and try to figure out what went wrong the last time and help yourself to prepare for whatever happens this time. Perhaps having a plan in place will give you more confidence and reassurance. I really do think there is a point to this. Have you tried ringing LLL or NCT?

My first born never latched on despite lots of help and attending supportive groups etc. I struggled with the pain of my next two feeding and only managed for 10 days with Ds before the bleeding and pain was too much (also my mum died and I felt too down to do it) then only managed a week with DD2 because I had no time to get it right - very sore and had the other two and no help at home. I did have very hurtful comments from a couple of mums about my FF. All the other mums I knew at the baby groups were BF in the early days. It was hard not to feel guilty and a failure because I had never intended to FF. But now my children are older - DD1 is 7. They get coughs and colds and the occasional sickness bug now they are at school but have never had antibiotics, the oldest two are both top of their year group and all have great, healthy and curious appetites whilst being slim and fit etc. I wished BF had worked for me but I no longer feel I am a failure. I know I'm a great mum (with moments of being very cross!) and have a fantastic bond with my children. I felt for the presenter still feeling she should have tried harder and hope she comes to terms with that. Breast milk is undoubtedly best for a baby and good for the mother too. I think the bonding argument is nonsense (not that BF don't bond but FF is not inferior in that department although is in others). But if it doesn't work...move on and feel good about all the things you can do.

"but if it doesn't work out, then just get on with enjoying your baby and don't worry about it"

If I couldn't have breastfed I would have been very, very sad, particularly with dc's 2 and 3, because by then I knew what normal, happy breastfeeding was like. I would have felt that me and my dc would have missed out on something really special and it would have changed my experience of day to day life as a mum in a way that I hadn't anticipated or welcomed.

So I appreciate some lightweight journalist telling me to 'get on with it, and don't worry'.

Must remember that next time I experience a crushing sense of disappointment and grief about something that hasn't worked out in my life.

Pro mum's choice here.

My sisters and i were FF babies. My mum was happy with her decision, my dad helped with the night feeds. I am happy, healthy, not underweight, not overweight, not constantly ill. And i have a string of good qualifications so don't think i'm lacking in IQ. Oh, and i've always been very close to my mum and don't feel i missed out on a special bond.

I breastfeed my 5 month old DS. I am happy with my decision. DS is happy, healthy, not underweight, not overweight, no ill. Developmentally he's absolutely bob on. We are very closely bonded too. As is my DH to DS when he gives him a bottle of expressed every other night.

What's the big deal?

This programme really highlighted the difference in experiences. For me and DD bfing just happened really easily - the only pain I ever had was the initial ouchy 10 seconds in the first weeks. DD just gained weight in textbook fashion. It was a virtuous circle - after a miserable pregnancy all those feelgood hormones meant DD's newborn weeks were just really happy for me (albeit tired) and I loved bfing. Watching the programme made me feel really nostalgic for bfing.

But the programme showed how easily it could have been different. I'm 13 weeks with DC2 and wondering whether it will be that easy next time round ... Perhaps karma will send me a BFing nightmare next time round!

But I guess what I am saying is whether or not BFing is "successful" seems to be very little to do with anything the mother does or doesn't do. So we shouldn't beat ourselves up if it doesn't work out.

The other thing I thought of was that so often it is mentioned that BFing is best for the baby.

But the other thing to point out is that if it actually works and isn't too painful then actually is best for mum too - lovely hormones helping you through the newborn phase.

Forget the baby, what about MY wellbeing!!

I wish that was my experience Bumps! The newborn phase for me was horrendous, and mostly BECAUSE of bfing! Still glad I managed to stick with it, though I sympathise completely with people who give up.

MsScarlett - I hear what you're saying. It just shows how experiences are so diverse.

FWIW although I feel I managed breastfeeding well, I feel crap due to the fact that I am so much "worse" at being pregnant than anyone else I know. Although I know intellectually that actually some people do just have a much harder time than others due to sickness/spd ect, I still can't quite shift the idea that I am just pathetic and should be out doing aquanatal and pregnancy yoga with the rest of them ...

If we don't feel crap about how "well" we feed our child, we can be sure there will be something else we feel inadequate about - goes with the territory I guess!

No doubt you can do all the bonding etc with ff and it is nice for dads, grannies and siblings to join in and give mum a rest. Not what I wanted but good for some. It just makes me sad to see tiny babies going round a supermarket with a bottle propped on a blanket, or lying on a changing mat in a swimming pool changing room with mum holding the bottle in one hand, back to baby, texting with the other hand...seen week after week when taking my son to his swimming lesson! This is much harder with bf, though lots of people seem to MN whilst doing it! I did watch the telly, not stare lovingly into my babies' eyes the whole time...
Sad also that someone might never have considered or tried bf because of peer/family pressure/cultural norm/lack of education/support.
Sad that milk companies have had such a poor record in the developing world, and even in developed countries less educated people may make mistakes in preparing feeds, sterilising bottles etc.
Not sad that ff is a choice which is available when needs must and there can be many reasons for this 'need'.

RE bonding - I bonded with my DCs when they were in the womb. The only thing that made it difficult was the problems I had feeding one of them after the birth. I didn't want to look at the baby after a while because it meant more struggle, pain and misery. When I gave up and ff it was as though a weight was lifted and we could enjoy each other at last. Just as snuggly and beautiful eyes gazing up. We couldn't be closer. I know a mother who BF and was horrendous to her kids once it was finished. Bonding is the only area where I completely disagree about the BF being better. It's just not true.

Bumps - I get you completely! I had a "text book" pregnancy, not really much morning sickness, every test normal, kept on working til 37 weeks etc etc. BUT dd was breech and wouldn't turn so after much soul-searching I went with what I was advised and had an elective CS. I still feel sad and in a way guilty about it. The other day I went to mother and baby group and we shared our birth experiences. I felt like a "failure" because I had not had a "proper" birth. I wasn't the only person there to have had a CS, but I was the only person there who had not had a "labour" of any kind.

I really envy you bumps. A baby screaming in distress and hunger because she is getting nothing from you does not create lovely feelings.

soverylucky sadly women are criticised for having a C-section.

Lucky - I understand how you feel. DD used to scream during and after feeds, and we now know this was due to reflux and lactose intolerance. I was so sleep deprived, and in restrospect I am sure I had PND. I remember thinking that my milk was poisoning her and that dd hated me, and I remember my dp waking me YET AGAIN to feed her when I was so exhausted I couldn't even lift my arms to hold her and he held her up to my chest and I couldn't even look at her.

I remember giving her a bottle of lactose free formula with her gaviscon mixed in and she was glugging it back and so happy and content and I never felt closer to her or more love for her. Now she has outgrown some of her digestive problems and I am back to EBF I feel the same way when I bf her. I don't think the method of feeding affects bonding at all, it's whatever makes you both happy.

I thought the program was well balanced and as someone who believes in BF, but yet was unable to make my baby grow ended up having to FF, I feel the end comment was a good one.
What angers me about the whole thing is that when you end up having to FF there is very little good unbiased information about formula and how to use it.

As a vet I have a whole host of excellent science and trials comparing the different formulas for calves, lambs, piglets, kittens and puppies - but none of this is around for babies. The way I fed DD was largely built on the way I have fed other animals on the bottle - was this right?
I also knew from my job that the first 3 days colostrum was the most important time to feed and that I did achieve this.
There needs to be good support for feeding your baby regardless of you choice.

Thanks MsScarlett. IT does annoy me - I have no argument at all with all the other claims made for BF. They all make sense and it is the most normal, natural food for a new born mammal to have it's mothers milk. But the bonding is just silly. Of course mothers who are traumatised (!) by BF bond beautifully but so do FF mothers. And as we know, by far the majority of babies are FF and there are a lot of happy families around. Through history, when formula didn't even exist there are plenty of reasons (social and biological) for women not to bond with their babies. Bringing up bonding always seems to strike a false note in an otherwise solid case of BF.

Sorry - who are NOT traumatised I meant! Freudian slip!

I think it is the most horrible aspect of the eternal guilt-trip placed on mothers who can't/don't breast feed, that you will LOVE your baby less. With early motherhood being so hard already, and the possibility of PND etc. there will always be moments when you don't feel as close to your baby as you feel you should. If I had felt how I had and I had happened to be ff, I would have felt that it was my fault for ff her, and not that actually I was sick, or just going through what all mothers go through when they haven't slept in weeks.

soverylucky great post. I had a similar experience to yours in that I never had any question about whether I would ebf until I discovered (upon dd being admitted back to neonatal with dehydration) that I had a condition I'd never heard of, which made it impossible.

Women who have such conditions are too often dismissed by both sides of the 'debate': by lactivists who don't like to acknowledge that there's such thing as an actual supply issue that can't be fixed by a better latch or greater commitment, and by those who ff by choice, who don't like to hear how upset someone else was to have to use formula rather than breastfeed, because that implies that there's something 'wrong' with formula.

People interested in improving breastfeeding rates might like to consider why nothing is ever made of the fact that so little money, research, or awareness seems to go toward medical conditions that make it impossible for some women.

I understand that for some mothers bfing will be impossible despite their attempts but for the majority, it seems that they don't have the grit to get on with it and sort out the problems. Lack of education could be a factor but at 22 I picked up a book and did my own research. It is bloody hard work for at least the first ten weeks....I bf four and all were different but I was determined. I bf a 3wk old with whooping cough and have never felt exhaustion like it! I think none of them went longer than 2 and a half hours night and day between feeds but I made that commitment to them. I kept trying until I got it right, I felt I owed them that.