To think it will all kick off on here after this is aired?

[MsScarlett]

My mum just texted me to say that tomorrow there is a documentary on BBC3 at 9pm called, "Is Breast Best?".

I predict a bunfight!

ok Mila - we can't possibly agree on a bf thread! Now you're really freaking me out!

It's funny this class divide - that bfing is considered a bit "lentil-weavery" or middle class. I'm from quite a working class, lowish income background but I remember most of my mum's family/friends all breast fed because they simply couldn't have afforded to ff even if they'd wanted to. People REALLY had to economise in those days. I remember mum baking fairy cakes etc to go in our lunch boxes etc as we couldn't even afford penguins etc. (although you're probably not even allowed to put penguins in a child's lunchbox nowadays).

I remember my mum saying to me in my darkest hours with dd, "just give her a bottle. I'll buy you some formula if you like. I probably would have if I could have afforded it."

Don't get me wrong I'm not blaming my mum, I was in a state and she was just trying to help me as I wasn't coping. But she tells me about times she was really low too, but had no choice but to carry on bfing as she had no money!

Not saying that the cost of formula should be hiked up or anything, but just a bit of food for thought, just as once upon a time only the upper classes could afford to hire wet nurses and therefore were the only ones who didn't breastfeed.

Agree with that. My SIL once told me that I'd "probably found it easier to BF because I'm posh"!

I'm not. But she shops at Asda

Bubbly

I shop at Asda too, yet I breast feed! Wow, I'm defying all the stereotypes!

I've evn breastfed in asda...using a sling as I walked around! Beat that!

I was a bit wary of this programme, but ended up really enjoying it. It was billed as one person's exploration of her own experience (which was obvious from the title) so i think people are misguided in their 'it should have been this' or 'she should have done that'. I thought the presenter was very engaging and open minded. I was particularly impressed by the way she changed her mind about extended bf-ing after meeting the mum who was bfing her toddlers, and how honest she was about her own feelings. Loved Tijen. Think she's a great advert for bf-ing - didn't think she wanted to, gave it a go, ended up doing it for 11 months, but still very much her own person and looks just as amazing as she did before.

What I REALLY liked was Cherry's summing up at the end. Can't remember exactly but it was something like - 'bfing is best for babies, so we owe it to them to give it a go - if it's difficult then look for help before giving up, but if it doesn't work out, then just get on with enjoying your baby and don't worry about it.' A very positive message I thought.

Ok so I was making a snobby point....

piousprat and xstitch: I feel sick to my stomach when I read your stories- although I didn't experience anything like your problems, I also came across a lot of BF fascists and really resented having to stand my ground and even justify my feeding decisions.
Neither of you ought to have had to go through this...the BF mafia out there (whether in the guise of a "well-meaning" GP, midwife, family friend, husband, mother in law or anyone else) has to understand the harm that they can do- REAL harm, often instilling guilt and a feeling of total failure in women for YEARS.
Very well put hecate, by the way :-)

No worries MooMoo. I only shop there because I am a poor (medical) student and it is undoubtedly cheaper. Once I am a doctor I will shop at Waitrose for sure, and will have my lactating boobies out all over the place, so maybe there is some truth in your SIL's observations...

Letherchair - I suppose the point I was also trying to make was that people were very quick to offer advice that undermined BF - and no-one (including me :() would call them on it, becasue that would be be "being judgemental"

In my work environment (Glasgow: a city with very poor BF rates) it is FF that is seen as the norm. To even suggest that continuing to BF might be possible with the right support would be seen as interfering - yet suggesting a bottle is not.

Oh and Treats, i agree with you. I can see the point of some of the criticisms people have made of it, But on the whole I think it could have been a lot worse.

Cherry summed up my feelings about bfing. I very nearly gave up, but luckily didn't, but no doubt would have felt terrible if i did. The whole guilt surrounding it did pretty much lead me to depression tbh.

I just don't see why it has to be such an "emotive" and guilt-ridden issue!

So true prettybird.

Two thoughts that occured to me this morning, somewhere between sterilising bottles and latching DS on...

1. How do people know that what a mum may be feeding her child in a bottle isn't expressed breast milk? I had this once, early January, took DS out to Stourhead. Halfway round the gardens he decided he was hungry. I had anticipated this so had a bottle of expressed with me. I wasn't about to unwrap enough to feed on that cold day. A couple of older ladies meandered past me and remarked to each other "another new mum using formula..."

2. If more people became pirates global warming would decrease. Or at least the pollutants would as less people would be driving cars or needing central heating. Obviously only if they were Jack Sparrow (mmmmmm, yummy) type pirates though.

leoniedelt - Obviously you are very much pro bf but I dont understand why you felt you had to use the words "to counter" new pups post on their reasons for choosing to ff, the post was their reasons for choosing to ff - not trying to brainwash persuade anyone else to.

The inference from your post was that Mothers who ff, particularly choose to, are inferior Mothers to you because youve never had a tin of formula in your house ever. There was also quite a nasty undertone that people who give up bf just arent trying hard enough because you managed and persevered.

Which contributes to the guilt some women feel. Whilst I dont understand this guilt - because I feel there is no need to feel this - there is a post here from a poor women who seems to have let this affected her so much and so badly she is still depressed, self harmed and dominated by it all 18 months on.

Im one of these unusual people who choose to ff not just once, but 3 times and have never had an interest in bf. I dont have any "eww" feelings, I dont have any feelings that thats not what breasts are for, just didnt fancy it and enjoyed the freedom of having Dad feed our sons to. And have never felt guilty and never will.That makes people like you judge me and think its "shocking"...well I really couldnt care. But I do care about others who do feel guilty.

Mumo - I always feel the need to "announce" that I am given dd ebm when I am out. She needs meds with her feeds, at home I can give then to her with a syringe, but out and about I just add them to a bottle to reduce faff.

I have started bfing her at mother and baby group, instead of taking ebf ina bottle, despite all the faff as I feel "judged" (not that anyone says anything) by all the other mums with their boobies out...

Seems from lots of these posts that many of us feel judged or criticised whatever our decision. Maybe that is not actually the intention and we are obviously super sensitive to any discussions/comments/'looks' about the way we have chosen to feed our children.

Interesting comments re class issues. Most of the people I know who never bf are quite wealthy and appear to view me as rather 'lentil-weavery' for bf past 6 weeks. Once I was 'spotted' at the supermarket with dd in a sling (baby bjorn, not even proper sling) and it commented upon for ages afterwards - people who weren't there asked me about it later. Think they were fascinated...God knows what they'd have said if I was breastfeeding at the same time...!

Yes leonie I am lazy. Very lazy and stupid. I care so little about my dd's welfare that even though she is now approaching her 6th birthday I still feel so guilty about my failure that I often have suicidal thoughts about it. Admitedly I didn't get very much support, the midwife was in my face shouting 'you do know you have to feed your baby don't you' when I asked for help through sobs after trying unsuccessfully to get dd to latch on for 2 hrs. However the fuck up is my fuck up and my fuck up alone.

fifitot I don't think leatherchair is being over dramatic at all. Although there are mothers who are very pro ff over bf there are too many like us who although want to bf can't and then suffer for years to come, and I do mean suffer.

The people who make nasty comments about people feeding with a bottle in public really need to look at themselves and think good and hard. You cannot assume they are against breast feeding or don't understand its benefits because a starving baby can never be preferable to a ff baby and I don't see how anyone can think that. AS someone pointed out for all you know it could be expressed breast milk in the bottle, my cousin got herangued in public for ff her adopted son (where was her milk going to come from), a neighbour of mine is bringing up her dn after the mother died in an accident when the baby was 3 weeks old (again where would her milk come from) and finally some women just can't breast feed.

Yes breast feeding is natural and that is what the body is deigned to do but so is walking and there are people who can't walk or doing other things our bodies are meant to do. Some of us are just faulty. Shitty, fucked up excuses for human beings but human beings none the less. There is a difference between being faulty and being uncaring about your child's future.

another chance for every one to tell each other they are right (TV not mumsnet)

sometimes you cant BF, in which case everyone shouldl try to make that mum feel better, not worse.

couldnt BF 2nd child, and I really tried. Trauma trauma. Last thing you want is everyone telling you what a failure you are. Sickly little baby that didnt want FF or BF and gained only 2lb in 5 months, until I gave her food then she grew grew grew

1st child I was like Daisy the cow and overfed him according to health visitor (he was putting on 1lb a week at the start)

you just can't win

all mums need supporting whatever they decide

Xstitch you are not a fuck up or a shitty human being. Please please stop beating yourself up! I bet your dc are happy healthy human beings? I feel so sorry for you at how bad you feel when you don't need to.
There have been some complete arses on this thread and you really need to learn to ignore, ignore, ignore. I hope you can get past how you feel about it for your sake and as for everyone else? Fuck 'em!!

xstitch it is awful that you feel the way you do. Have you tried counselling?

xstitch i am a bit worried about you- that your feelings about your bad bf experience are still so raw after so many years is awful, and you don't deserve to feel this way, no one does

have you ever talked about it or debriefed your experience with anyone who could be supportive while not being dismissive of your feelings? i had a really unhappy experience with the birth of my first child, and a debrief was really helpful to me

thinking of you x

I don't really see the point bubbley. Counselling isn't going to turn the clock back and make my boobs work is it? Besides needing counselling would only give XH something else about me to complain about.

I think it's still so raw chibi because it was only the end of last year that I was totally humiliated in court about it and that brought it back. I have also just found out I am pregnant and terrified of failing again.

oh xstitch I know a little bit about how you feel, every time I think about feeding my DD I feel sick and cross and angry at myself, I want to go back and do it all properly but that is the thing, not everyone can BF every baby.

Because I BF first baby so well, I am sure that failure the second time was because I was running around after a toddler, not eating drinking or resting enough. So I get so cross with myself, I want to go back in time and do it right.

But the thing is, DD is also coming up for 6, she is fine. She is beautiful, clever, happy, even tall now. Thin as a rake but lively and happy. And I am sure your DD is too. And the whole feeding thing is something in the past. I feel horrible about it every time I think about it but I don't think about it that often.

If you are thinking about it a lot, then it's something that you need to be able to get rid of somehow, whatever is the best way for you. There is this thing called Sedona that I use to get rid of bad feelings. Or counselling is good for some people. If you are feeling this bad, its time to get rid of that feeling.

You are not bad in anyway. You tried, it didnt work out. You did your best and that is all anyone can do. xx