To think it will all kick off on here after this is aired?

[MsScarlett]

My mum just texted me to say that tomorrow there is a documentary on BBC3 at 9pm called, "Is Breast Best?".

I predict a bunfight!

Does anyone else think that something along the lines of 'one born every minute' that covered bf could be quite helpful and informative? Showing different women's experiences at the start and giving advice and support (from qualified bfc!!!). Maybe showing people more realities about bf and how it can be difficult in the beginning would help to prepare them for it. I think it would be a good way to reach a lot of people and would maybe help to 'normalise' it a bit more and help with some of the myth busting! :)

I haven't read this whole thread but wasn't very impressed with the programme.

It barely touched the surface of the real issues surrounding the subject (IMO - society's views on the 'purpose 'of breasts, the scientific proof of benefits, to name but a couple). It jumped from one of a few examples to another. To me it was as if the producers had sat down and said "right lets find a 'no but yeah but' teenager to show that teens don't BF - ooh and a hippy mum who does, and preferably also feeds it to her H to push the 'alternative' aspect..." etc.

And the presenter of the show clearly had her own issues and agenda, to an extent.

But I wouldn't expect much from a BBC3 'documentary' anyway.

Really? Yes they did show the extremes, but I think there were enough normal people in it IMO... but yes I suppose there could have been more...

Ok girls, what about the breastfeeding doll that I saw on TV (The Wright Stuff I believe) made for little girls. I.e. instead of having a baby doll they feed with a bottle, they are supposed to feed it with their "breasts".

Do we need things like this to normalise bfing from an early age or is it going a bit too far?

Personally I have always thought of breastfeeding as normal because i saw my mum bfing my brother and I had a big extended family and saw my aunts bfing my cousins etc. I don't think I would have needed a doll that I was supposed to bf!

If one of the reasons why younger mothers are not keen to bf is because they don't want to get their boobs out in public, why don't they show that it is possible to bf discretely, ie lifting t-shirt up to get to the nipple, rather than yanking the whole boob out through the neckline on programmes like this? One of the men in the changing room said a friend's wife had been bfing and he hadn't even clocked it. A lot of women do bf this way, so show these as an example to squeamish teenagers, rather than mums feeding 5 year olds or dads eating cornflakes with breastmilk.

soverylucky - thank you for your kinds words. I hope that one day these feelings of guilt do go.

fifitot - that was me, whom your described as over dramatic. I can only speak for myself, and those I know that FF'ing was not a happy, no issues decision. However, if it allows you to feel superior by having judged people like me and dismissed any other feelings associated with FF, then go ahead.

I can assure you that none of your judging would ever make me feel any worse than I have done and feel now. I make that happen for myself day in, day out.

sorry you not your

When my DD plays with her dolls she pretends to BF them. She says she can remember me feeding her - I doubt she really can because I stopped when she was about 13m. But she has seen her auntie BF her baby and other friends doing so.

My mum bought a bottle for one of my DDs baby dolls and my DD said 'what does that do then?'. When my mum said it's for baby's drink, DD said, ok that can be for juice and water, because my baby has boobie for milk!'

No one? Maybe I should start a new thread....

I like that idea a lot, bubblymummy

Not heard of that breastfeeding doll msscarlett but would expect it to have a limited market. Don't kids who are used to seeing BFing pretend to breastfeed their normal dolls anyway? Still, I expect it made good (tabloid) telly

I thought it was shite to be honest.I agree with you re the morbidly obese lactivists(don't think I'll be taking any nutrition advice from you thanks ladies).

However I think there were a lot of missed ops. Sorry saying trot along to a bf session is about as useful as a chocolate teapot if you live out in the sticks,are carless,have rampaging toddlers etc.Bf cafes or whatever they are aint enough.

I know that poor girl was suffering to a certain extent but sorry I didn't think they dealt with the pain issue in anyway of enough detail. Many of us that experience pain literally have shredded nipples,are continuously sobbing(I even pulled my hair out it was that bad and I didn't have any infections),despise feeding etc,etc.What I experienced and several of my friends would have looked like a horror movie compared to said young girl.

I think blaming women in the public eye on lack of uptake is wrong.Women can do what they damn well please,nobody should shoulder the responsibility of other people's parenting choices.

I take extreme issue with the bonding thing,totally irresponsible and wrong. I've done both bf and ff and know pain aside you feel exactly the same for your baby. Not sure the doctor in question can comment being err a man and not privy to experience both forms of feeding.I think telling women how they must feel about their babies according to a stat list is wrong and laughable.

So Cherry feels guilty,many of us don't so why do we need an hour long doc about Cherry's guilt?It's almost as if the assumption was if you ff you feel guilty(or should do).For the reasons many of us have tirelessly laid out there should be no guilt what so ever in using formula and the reasons for this weren't looked into in any detail.A totally one sided and rather pointless doc to be frank. Can't say I learnt anything other than that Cherry feels guilty-give a shit-err no.

Also sorry Cherry you're going to have to toughen up re the guilt issue. There are 100s of parenting issues you'll come across in the years ahead.If you let it motherhood can become 1 long guiltfest. 7 years further on I have to say any very brief fleeting pangs of guilt I may have felt at the time of switching to ff have paled into complete insignificance compared to 100s of other parenting issues that have cropped up along the road.

God we're not going to have a doc for every parenting issue Cherry struggles with are we?

bubbley That sounds like a fantastic idea - it's a shame this programme didn't follow that format a bit more. Sadly I think if new mums had watched that programme hoping to get some tips to make it easier, they wouldn't have got any.

When I had my first, I was very lucky to have a good HV who had BF her children, and a good friend who had also done so. They were very hands on in helping me with positions and latching on. Without them I may have given up.

Every new mum needs somebody like that.

milamae @ a documentary for each of cherry's issues!

Yeah I see your point. I was surprised that that is supposedly such a big barrier to bf for so many people. I personally have always been quite modest when it comes to my boobs, I wouldn't really wear low cut tops or sunbathe topless for example; but it never occurred to me to be embarrassed to bf in public. It is a totally different thing imo.

It does seem odd that a lot of teenage girls would think nothing of having their cleavage on display and would probably be a glamour model given have the chance but yet won't bf in public. Or maybe that is horribly stereotyping teenage mothers!

Hey, since the concept sounds better than that thing last night, how's about a mumsnet documentary along those lines then? I'd be up for it!

Thanks Wellies! I think it would be good to cover it from a 'real life' perspective where you don't know how it is going to turn out for each women. That way you get genuine problems that crop up in real life that no one tells you about beforehand - things like tongue tie,cluster feeding, difficulty latching, cracked nipples etc. If people saw these things and saw the problems being solved or the women finding alternative solutions eg. nipple shields, expressing etc (obviously with pros and cons discussed) I think it would really help to eliminate some of the false expectations and the 'oh my goodness, something is wrong!' that makes women doubt themselves in the early days.

MsScarlett my DS was watching with us and said the same thing. The teenage girl was sitting there with more of her boobs on show than not, but was saying how she wouldn't want to get them out to BF . I don't think it's you stereotyping, it was the programme.

woman*

I agree, bubblymummy and it would be the sort of programme that would appeal to the silent majority and therefore be more effective in making people feel confident enough to trust their own bodies and instincts.

Agree with you bubbly. I had cluster feeding, tongue tie, colic, reflux and transient lactose intolerance. All massive barriers to bfing, none of which I had heard of before, but all of which are not that uncommon really. Why couldn't have someone warned me about these things, instead of just the old cliches; cracked nipples, mastitis blah de blah de blah (neither of which I had any experience of myself incidentally) - not that they are not difficult, but there are other more things that occur, and in different combinations.

My experience was that I had so many niggles that no one single person could deal with them all - I sought advice where I could, but for instance a breastfeeding counsellor who I asked how often I should feed her because of her reflux said "Oo I don't know about reflux", er, I appreciate you're trying love, but why not? Is it really that rare? Who does know about it, and who can help me? My GP can give me the prescription for the meds but told me to contact the HV about feeding advice and she referred me to you....

I am sure I am not along amongst women who breast fed who consciously avoid asking a new mother how she is finding feeding for fear of being seen as judgemental :(

I'd love to feel able to ask, so that if they are having problems I could offer my own experience and suppor:it took over 8 weeks to properly get bf established, during which time ds droped form 91st to underneath the centiles (before completing his "catch down" growth and then progressing gradually back up to the 50th by 3+ months) - but, thanks to good support, I succeeded in continiung to EBF till he was 13 months. However, whenever I overheard conversations at work when a newborn is visiting it was always along the lines of "oh bf is so difficult, why don't you just give a bottle?". I am ashamed that I would just bite my lip and walk away :(

I was :( that my SIL wouldn't even consider bf "because she didn't like the idea, even though she knows the benefits" (her words). I'm not judging her : I am just more and :( at the environment/society in which she lives, where FF is the norm and bf is seen as "strange"/a bit "lentil-weaver-ish". It is a good example of the West of Scotland post-code correlation with breast-feeding rates.

Wellies

And Bubbly I agree to you to a certain degree again. How bloody difficult it is just pushed under the carpet and helps nobody.My own mother who struggled never even said a word re the pain and it then knocks your confidence ie we're doing it wrong.

Women who have had a c/s need extra support.You can't drive for 6 weeks(the crucial time) so getting out is really tricky. Bf cafes if not on my doorstep would have been completely useless.

I totally agree that showing more 'normal' women bf would have been great (like the girl who didn't want to but then fed her dd for 11 months). A one born every minute style programme about bf would be really good!! At the beginning I would have loved to know more about other people's experiences. Although I didn't have problems with pain, I was still worried that she was feeding too often etc (and was told as much by several people) so it would have been nice to know that she wasn't and that she didn't need to be in a strict routine.

I have never been very comfortable with bf in public and think that if more women did it would make me feel much happier about it (although I fully accept that the issue is mine and noone elses). In response to another poster, I have received negative comments about bf - have been told its 'weird' to feed past 6 months and that if someone else was bf in a restaurant it would put them off their food. I think these comments have stuck with me. However, I've never heard negative comments about someone ff - even on here! Obviously a big part of this is our perception and our own insecurities - we all remember things differently.

prettybird you strike a chord there. I am guilty of doing the same, just keeping quiet or making polite noises in case it becomes an issue for debate. And yet I too feel like I have good experience to share with new mums having spent a total of 3 years bfing with my boys.

Yes, it really has the potential to reach so many people - Mums to be, people who might try bf again with a subsequent child, women who aren't even pregnant yet! I have loads of friends who watch one born every minute but have no plans to get pregnant just yet. :) Just by letting people see the problems, see how they are dealt with, see discrete feeding, see 'average' mums that aren't at either end of the extreme, see how people cope with going back to work, expressing etc. It would just make it seem so much more 'normal' and achievable.

Thing is pretty, most people don't judge and like you just want to help and give advice. I think the problem is that just by reading a thread like this, it's apparent that there are number of women who make sweeping judgements about FF'ing.

When you see a Mother FF'ing you have no idea whether that Mother sits in the 'I am more than happy with my choice to FF' or like me, feeling sad, and disappointed with herself.