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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Are you a Mother/Father of a mixed raced child/different skin colour?

107 replies

YouaretooniceNOT · 11/04/2011 16:54

I am White single Mother. My son is half White and half Afro Carribbean.

My son is 12 years old, very pleasent, clam and really well behaved in public. He can walk and holds my arm whilst doing so.

Over the years i have recieved 'dirty looks', comments. name calling. sniggering from the general public about his SN mainly.

My friend whom runs a group for disabled children and has mixed raced Grandchildren herself says the 'dirty looks' are quite possibly more to do with the fact that my son is half black and is 'quite dark' for a half white child. Not that he is SN.

Can this be true?

I really do not want to start world war 3 over this..please. I'm upset i have explained aswell as i can right now..sorry.

OP posts:
NorkyButNice · 11/04/2011 20:43

I have the opposite situation to you OP - I'm mixed race and both my DC have white skin, blond hair and blue eyes.

Ds1 was born in New York and I was asked more times than I care to remember if I were his nanny.

If we get looks now we've moved back to London, I don't notice them (thick skin these days) - but I wouldn't be surprised if we do get them. Actually I think I tell myself it's because DS2 is so cute and that's why they're looking (deluded).

Chin up OP. Other people's issues should not bring you down.

Original poster
YouaretooniceNOT · 11/04/2011 20:43

but still like you said totally ignore them. dont let such ignorant gits ruin your day Grin

OP posts:
Ciske · 11/04/2011 20:48

ciske i have to say yes chances are they are more racist - if you can define racist as being completely ignorant of anyone who doesnt look like them.

But is ignorance the same as racism? A black person might attract more curiosity and attention in a small village vs. a bigger, more anonymous city, but does that mean they are discriminated against? It's not racist to be curious about other backgrounds (I'm Dutch and people ask me about it all the time), it's whether people then proceed to judge you differently on aspects unrelated to your race/culture than makes it racism (e.g. assuming you are less skilled/intelligent/friendly).

I think if we're going to have a thread about judging people unfairly due to their background, saying that villagers are more racist than city people should be backed up by more than anecdotal evidence.

Tokyotwist · 11/04/2011 21:04

Actually, I don't quite get the term Afro-Caribbean. I wouldn't be offended if anyone referred to me in that way but I wouldn't choose it myself (unless forced to on the numerous forms that seem to insist on limiting categories).
I'm half African and half British, not a drop of Caribbean blood in me Smile.
Never heard the term African-Caribbean or Dual Heritage. The latter is nice but doesn't quite describe where one is from.

Having said all that, I really think it's the intent that matters rather than the choice of words used. Where I grew up, the term "half caste" was used a lot and was quite acceptable. I used it to describe myself for years until I came here and learnt how unacceptable it is.

Original poster
YouaretooniceNOT · 11/04/2011 21:05

i didn't say ALL people everywhere are racist except for me and the posters here did i?

OP posts:
Original poster
YouaretooniceNOT · 11/04/2011 21:05

should be obvious should't it?

OP posts:
thenameiwantedwastaken · 11/04/2011 21:05

Were you walking at all slowly or looking around in Stratford? TBH a local may tut at you just for looking like a tourist! Sorry you felt uncomfortable OP, I second others who said just be proud of yourself and your beautiful son and ignore the rest!

Original poster
YouaretooniceNOT · 11/04/2011 21:09

We were walking at quite a pace. We had been sitting on the wall by the river watching the boats ( well i was watching). This young pig man was smoking a cigartte in his chef uniform. The man behind him smiled at us as i looked through the window and as i looked back the pig man gave me a filthy look and tutted looking my son up and down. I really wanted to scream at him what you looking at? I knew i would be the moronic individual then.

Had a few stares and looks before that.

I really haven't let that kind of thing spoil my day as much as that before.

I might go back to Stratford soon and have a good day!

OP posts:
Tokyotwist · 11/04/2011 21:09

Ciske I agree, just because someone is curious and/or ignorant of races other than their own, does not mean they're racist.

Surely to be racist, you have to actually hate another race or believe your's to be superior.

Thornykate · 11/04/2011 21:16

I find that our family is more accepted in the city especially in certain parts of the city than it is when we go to small towns or villages although I appreciate that this would be classed as anecdotal. I wouldn't convert this into an assumption that all villages are racist as that would be very unfair however I think that peoples experiences have to be acknowledged as there isn't really a way of quantifying things like this?

Thornykate · 11/04/2011 21:30

I think that hating is the most extreme end of racism, but the ignorance & stereotypes can be very damaging too.

For example, in mental health services a black male is statistically a lot more likely to be labelled as aggressive & placed in secure units than a white male with similar presentation. I don't think that the staff involved hate the patient involved BUT there is a result that is detrimental to the patient due to their colour/ ethnicity. For the people on the receiving end of such treatment I think they would be justified in calling it racism even if the treatment is fuelled by ignorance & fear rather than hatred.

Sorry if that's going off on a tangent but it's one area where they have actually managed to quantify the problem to a degree.

michelle2011 · 11/04/2011 21:38

if people are ignorant about other groups then sometimes this ignorance can come off as racist. nobody is blatantly racist now but some older people can be. ive been told my sons will make great basketball players. that is just dumb. is it racist? personally i think so, just because they are black doesnt mean they are going to be great at sports they can be anything. it is a sign that that particular person isnt around any people who are of colour, it really does show in their language. in japan if you are black and tall they will think you are a famous american athelete - i have seen it with my own eyes!! its all very subliminal and yes very hard to quantify as what is for one isnt for another so any anecdote can be taken many different ways. but nevertheless when someone stares you can kinda tell if it is a stare of if it is a grimace along with it. the tutting i have no idea about but given the OPs son is SN then it sounds nasty to me

michelle2011 · 11/04/2011 21:39

not nobody* not PC to be these days is what i meant to say

hissymissy · 11/04/2011 22:36

Am shocked at some of the situations some posters have had. I have to reiterate though, DS is 7 dual heritage (black african-white british), and he really looks very black african. We live in a very small rural town in devon, and I can say hand over heart I have never, ever experienced this kind of behaviour directed at myself or DS.

I have heard racist comments in general, however they are always in a kind of ignorant country bumpkin way (still utterly wrong), and those people would never dare to actually say that kind of thing to someone's face. I don't actually think they really think about what they are saying half the time, it is total ignorance.

Once a bunch of kids on our street started teasing DS, saying he was covered in poo because his skin was brown. To be fair, he had started picking on these two girls, and they all started on at him. I don't think they intended to be racist, they just said it because his skin is brown, and to them that is an automatic association with poo. When the parents of these kids realised what they had said they were horrified, dragged them over to my door to apologise.

Perhaps we are just lucky, or DS is still too young to be a percieved threat??

BagofHolly · 11/04/2011 23:23

To answer your question, OP, one of my children is paler than me (and I'm almost pale blue!) but with v dark features, one is darker but auburn and the third is darker than my H. They all look v different, but they've all got my husband's huge feet and massive big toes! By the way, I'm from "Up North", wherever that might be, and have had curious but not negative questions when I met my DH. My home town is friendly but has a small gene pool so anyone different is quite conspicuous.

amberleaf · 11/04/2011 23:40

Only posted to say how much i hate the term dual heritage*

What does it say?

Dual implies 2, many mixed race people [especially those with a parent from the caribbean] have a mix of more than 2 races/heritages.

Who exactly comes up with these terms?

It certainly isnt mixed race people.

Original poster
YouaretooniceNOT · 11/04/2011 23:53

My Son is White English, African Carribbean, irish, Spanish and Red Indian.

OP posts:
TheyKnowEsperanto · 11/04/2011 23:58

amberleaf I did think that after I had posted that lots of people have lots of different strands to their background in which case mixed is just more accurate than dual heritage.

amberleaf · 12/04/2011 00:12

YouaretooniceNOT So can you see why 'dual heritage' isnt that accurate?

TheyKnowEsperanto Mainly i think individuals should be able to decide how they identify, it just irks me when people [im betting white middle class] make up new terms and rules about things like this.

grrr rant over Smile

TheyKnowEsperanto · 12/04/2011 00:28

Hmmm well I'll pass on the message to DS's father that he must be white middle-class if you like? He's not (his own preferred term is Brit-Pak for British Pakistani but until his own personal brand catches on, he was the one who suggested dual heritage) but it'll make him laugh Grin

It is interesting though how the word Paki is just not perjorative in other countries. When we were first seeing each other I did a holiday exchange and swapped with a couple for their place in Paris. They left me a lovely note in English saying thank you for their stay and what a delicious Paki they'd had from the local restaurant during their stay. xDP was quick to request no more cannibalistic home swaps! In speaking to French friends it was just the equivalent of saying ordering an indian takeout and for Australians (my background) it is merely a shortened version of Pakistani with no disrespect attached, but there is no doubt that to most English people it would be a racist term. My only view is to take on board how someone describes themselves.

Original poster
YouaretooniceNOT · 12/04/2011 00:29

Yes, i can. I must come across as a bit ignorant about my son but he will never know about the colour of his skin, his heritage as he is blind, mentally impaired, no speech. So i really have had other stuff to think about. The PC of race changes so much i guess i haven't needed to update myself about it and it has kinda passed me by.
Ironically i have been accused of being a racist on another thread and had lots of pm's calling me a white slag etc.

OP posts:
amberleaf · 12/04/2011 00:35

Hmmm well I'll pass on the message to DS's father that he must be white middle-class if you like? He's not (his own preferred term is Brit-Pak for British Pakistani but until his own personal brand catches on, he was the one who suggested dual heritage) but it'll make him laugh

Grin well it may have been his suggestion within your family but im sure he didnt invent the term and heard it somewhere?!

Yeah i think re the term Paki to understand how/why its an offensive term in Britain maybe you had to be around in the 1970-80s particularly. [ paki bashing etc]

Grin @ cannibalistic homeswaps though!

amberleaf · 12/04/2011 00:39

YouaretooniceNOT sorry to hear about the nasty PMs thats disgusting.

I can totally understand that you have different priorities regarding your son and his racial background/SN.

Original poster
YouaretooniceNOT · 12/04/2011 00:40

It has got me so angry i really told them off!! They have shown their true colours, i will send an email to MNHQ in the morning!

OP posts:
LDNmummy · 12/04/2011 05:20

"!Am shocked at some of the situations some posters have had. I have to reiterate though, DS is 7 dual heritage (black african-white british), and he really looks very black african. We live in a very small rural town in devon, and I can say hand over heart I have never, ever experienced this kind of behaviour directed at myself or DS.

I have heard racist comments in general, however they are always in a kind of ignorant country bumpkin way (still utterly wrong), and those people would never dare to actually say that kind of thing to someone's face. I don't actually think they really think about what they are saying half the time, it is total ignorance.

Once a bunch of kids on our street started teasing DS, saying he was covered in poo because his skin was brown. To be fair, he had started picking on these two girls, and they all started on at him. I don't think they intended to be racist, they just said it because his skin is brown, and to them that is an automatic association with poo. When the parents of these kids realised what they had said they were horrified, dragged them over to my door to apologise.

Perhaps we are just lucky, or DS is still too young to be a percieved threat??"

Words fail me.