To be Disturbed by this woman in a Burka? ......

[Gingefringe]

I saw a very strange event in Debenhams make-up counter this week-end which on reflection, I found very disturbing.
A woman in a full burka (including her eyes covered in thin veil) came up to the make-up counter with a man (presumably DH). The man then proceeded to ask about foundation for the woman and had a conversation with the sales assistant which rarely included the woman at all (apart from trying on a sample colour on her hand).
I felt so sorry for the poor woman - not only to be forced to wear this ridiculous veil but she wasn't allowed even to chose her own make-up!
I did give the man my best evil looks but he didn't seem to notice - perhaps because I was a woman!! I was too cowardly to say anything.

On the day that France bans the burka I wonder whether you would have said anything?

Do Muslim men, whose wives "choose" to wear the full burqa, not think that all women should be wearing such a restrictive garment? Even those who would claim not to, would they not secretly prefer it, because to them, thats the way they think women should present themselves?

I also object to the argument that it's an overreaction to "a bit of cloth".

Were it just "a bit of cloth" there would be no problem with removing it.

I don't like the burka and what it stands for but I think the ban is awful.

These women will all now simply be under house arrest. Their religion states a womans face needs to be covered up in public so they won't be allowed out in public simple as that-great .

Also some(not all) women choose to wear a burka,they're being treated like children being told what not to wear. This ban doesn't give them anything,they're still being told what to do.

So no takers then for explaining why womens bodies need covered? And why mens dont?

njinsky would you like to come around to my house for coffee? i'll invite some of my muslim friends aswell. i am serious btw.

i already explained the rationale, in uk it is acceptable for man to o topless but not woman, on the street.

islam is the same except the codes for modesty are stricter, men are not allowed to expose between their knees and navels, women are not allowed to show hair and body infront of men and between their knees and navels to other women, except of course in medical situations etc.

men are more visual in their desires and et turned on by what they see, women et turned on by more internal factors, that is why more women then men read mills and boon and more men then women watch porn.

yes this is a eneralisation.

i dont o clubbin anymore, how many mums with youn kids do?

i dont wear jilbaab in my garden.

and i knoe a sister who lives in barbados and oes jet skiin in niqaab, she is also a pe teacher and when teachin on the field outside the school wears niqaab.

njinsky the problem of mens attitudes in islam is also tackled, men are suppose to lower their aze and falsely accusin a women of lewdness is a serious crime. they are supposed to act in a certain way towards women. unfortunately, larely due to culture and inorance many dont. i cant chane the way other people act.
they are also not suppossed to wear form fittin clothin. they are not allowed to wear gold. would you notice if a man was wearin loose join bottoms etc and no gold?

You do not expect an answer do you?. Their husbands wouldn't allow them to. It isn't a secret anyway we all know why....

France is in a "better" position than most countries for such a ban: completely indiscriminate as regards religion and fiercely defensive of secularity. All religiously symbolic garments are banned for those in public positions. I think this position is respected by the Muslim community. If it had happened in the UK there would have been hell on the streets today.

ofcorse the men that their wives choose to wear burka think that all the women should wear it, and thats why they marry them, because they got the same belive, but they are not forcing they others to wear it, the same when the one who their wives dont wear it, think that all the women should not wear it. thats work a bout ways

"islam is the same except the codes for modesty are stricter, men are not allowed to expose between their knees and navels, women are not allowed to show hair and body infront of men and between their knees and navels to other women, except of course in medical situations etc."

Where is this written down? Is it a hadith, is that what they're called?

njinsky my dhs sister doesnt cover, he had an aruement with another muslim man the other day who said women who dont cover are out of islam, he doesnt think i should cover, he arees with my decision to cover and believes that all women should have the choice and come to their own conclusions accordin to personal beliefs and situations. their is no compulsion.

as for secretly prefer, i think they would find it easier to follow the commandment to lower their aze if all women were covered! but it is none of their business what other women choose.

You went clubbing?hell on the streets of the UK? Get a grip fgs.

YouaretooniceNOT give it a rest why don't you?

I'm not muslim but my DH is. I wear clothes that show a little cleavage, and sometimes skirts above the knee, and swimming costumes on the beach (yes! Even in a muslim country!!!) I drink, I go clubbing sometimes, I have male friends, one old friend I meet for a coffee on our own occasionally....so how does he oppress me?

Singapore, also fiercely secular, has banned the hijab in schools for seven years now. The ban had the support of some Muslim scholars.

i cant believe im bein asked for daleel on mnet! lol i'll find it

I do think so, toonice. I think a ban on the burkha here would have seen very large demonstrations, very large burkha wearing protests, a good deal of fiery language and possibly a good deal of trouble. Actually maybe hell is going far. But I think it would turn very nasty indeed. We don't have the tradition of secularity that France has.

Eric - these women are racist IMO - do not tell me off ok!!

I would not wear a mini-skirt in India or Saudi Arabia. It's an issue of respect.

the muslim will still cover and follow their religion if all the people agains them want or no, you just waisting your time talking about them, thats their ownnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn business, get over it allllllllllllllll.

There are many ahaadeeth which indicate that a man?s ?awrah is the area between the navel and the knee (and the navel and knee are not part of the ?awrah). See al-Majmoo?, 3/173; al-Mughni, 2/286

These ahaadeeth include the following:

1 ? Abu Dawood (3140) and Ibn Maajah (1460) narrated that ?Ali (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: ?Do not show your thigh, and do not look at the thigh of anyone, living or dead.?

2 ? Ahmad (21989) narrated that Muhammad ibn Jahsh (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) passed by Ma?mar when I was with him, and his thighs were uncovered. He said: ?O Ma?mar, cover your thighs, for the thigh is ?awrah.?

3 ? Ahmad (15502), Abu Dawood (4014) and al-Tirmidhi (2798) narrated from Jawhad al-Aslami that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) passed by him when his thigh was uncovered and he said: ?Do you not know that the thigh is ?awrah??

4 ? al-Tirmidhi (2798) narrated from Ibn ?Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: ?The thigh is

Youaretoonicenot You're right of course - they are spouting absolute nonsense.

Please do NOT give it a rest. LOL at someone married to a muslim thinking they're broad-minded because they show a bit of cleavage.

Which women are racist?

I'mnot telling you OFF I'm telling you to give it a rest stop banging the drum about oppressive muslim husbands because it's making you look foolish. You haven't answered how my practising muslim husband is oppressing me by the way...care to?

Aggressive ^^^

I'd love a time machine and see what Muslims are actually like in the UK in 100 years from now!

Off to bed

nailak actually I would love to, as I have never had the chance to meet any Muslim women. But I am in Scotland?

"men are more visual in their desires and et turned on by what they see, women et turned on by more internal factors, that is why more women then men read mills and boon and more men then women watch porn."

But this is to suggest that men are savages and unable to conform to the rules of society. And the more you perpetuate this myth, the more men will play up to the notion that they are unable to control their urges around women who are not covered up or absent from public life.

Radical Islamic views are spreading right now and it is not unreasonable that when people who insist on such a radical interpretation of their religion live amongst more liberated Western women, those views are going to be challenged. I don't believe that such attitudes should not be questioned, certainly.

Suggest some of you read The God Delusion by Stephen Dawkins - IMO all religious people should have to read it - dare I say - ESPECIALLY burka-clad muslims.

Oh ffs are we on this again, yawn. Thought it had been a while...