To be Disturbed by this woman in a Burka? ......

[Gingefringe]

I saw a very strange event in Debenhams make-up counter this week-end which on reflection, I found very disturbing.
A woman in a full burka (including her eyes covered in thin veil) came up to the make-up counter with a man (presumably DH). The man then proceeded to ask about foundation for the woman and had a conversation with the sales assistant which rarely included the woman at all (apart from trying on a sample colour on her hand).
I felt so sorry for the poor woman - not only to be forced to wear this ridiculous veil but she wasn't allowed even to chose her own make-up!
I did give the man my best evil looks but he didn't seem to notice - perhaps because I was a woman!! I was too cowardly to say anything.

On the day that France bans the burka I wonder whether you would have said anything?

Ericnorthman, I havent seen anyone objecting to traditional dress, and i have seen plenty of asian men dressed in the fashion of the photos you linked. Fine, looks airy and comfy to me.

What I have never seen, is a man swathed from head to foot in metres of dark cloth, peering through eye slits. And thats the problem for me. Doesnt go both ways.

Its never been explained to me in simple terms exactly why there is an expectation that womens bodies be covered up outside the home.

Is a womans body shameful?
Is a womans body sinful?
Is it unclean?
Is it to prevent them being lusted at by men?
Is it because her body should be visible only to her husband?

Is it any or all of the above. I would like it explained. And having had it explained, I would further like to know why these rationals apply only to the female body.

If its the lusting one, then I suggest blindfolds or eye gouging for men, afterall all they allegedly are doing all the lusting, so they should cop for the inconvenience!

Also, news flash for imams and interpreters of doctrine.........wait for for it.... WOMEN DO A FAIR BIT OF LUSTING TOO! Incredible but true, so all those poor uncovered men out there are being lusted at. Get it covered boys.

Seriously, I would like to know the reasoning, and why that reasoning applys only to females.

I haven't called you any names, I suggested that you wonder if referring to a traditional head dress as a tea towel might sound a little ill informed?

I don't socialise with men, not because my partner is abusive or even gives a shit, but because I've not got a lot in common with men outside of my friends husbands/partners and my family. My time is precious, I spend it wisely.

It's really a rather large leap to assume that a woman that doesn't have male friends is somehow abused or oppressed. Then again, this thread is full of nasty assumptions based upon racial prejudice.

So who "chooses" to wear the full burqa with just the slit for the eyes and why? I think its not that a traditional dress for Islam until recent years, yes? Why do the men not wear the face veil or headscarf? It would only be easy to cycle in if you didn't go very fast and get sweaty. Still restrictive.

I'm sorry if I come across as slightly faceitious in my questions. Its just that it seems to restrict so many normal, harmless, fun day to day activities that the rest of us take for granted.

You said:

"you would shame your dh and family if you went out for a meal etc at night with a male friend and somebody whom knew you and dh spotted you"

I said:

Cant see anyone noticing or caring unless they thought I was having an affair (from actually seeing suspicious behaviour not just from my presence) and then I expect alot of people would be unimpressed and worried about my dc

me too, I'm oppressed by by 4 year old DS who will insist I'm up at 7am.

Yes i wear the head2toe and the face veil whenever i leave my house. No i dont ride a bike ( i have young children to transport) nor do i ever wish to swim in a lake.
But i do know an aunty who rides in a abayah and hijaab! She had been ridig her bike for over 20yrs no problems

But i do jump on trampolines in my friends garden fully covered!

Oh i just remember the vitamin the argument is flawed,im helping with a study o. Young teenage pregnant girls and majority are deficient and and they are white non muslim girls. We have weak sun in england and not enough of it

Sorry i was leaving this thread.

I don't object to the traditonal dress either, I think it looks nice and suitable for the climate, and if people want to wear their traditional dress here then they won't look any more as if they are making a point than Scotsmen who insist on wearing the kilt. I see it in much the same terms as Montysma

"What I have never seen, is a man swathed from head to foot in metres of dark cloth, peering through eye slits. And thats the problem for me. Doesnt go both ways.

Its never been explained to me in simple terms exactly why there is an expectation that womens bodies be covered up outside the home.

Is it any or all of the above. I would like it explained. And having had it explained, I would further like to know why these rationals apply only to the female body."

Indeed. I cannot come to any other concusion that its sexist, and that is also verges on racism because its only Islamic women who are required to "choose" to wear it.

Throughout history, women's fashions have often verged on the restrictive. But to encourage the covering of the entire female in public, other than her eyes, is utterly barbaric.

Wubbly - it has absolutely nothing to do with racial prejudice and I think it is very disingenuous of you to say that.

It is completely to do with the oppresion of women, using the excuse of religion. I see no other credible reason here.

mama2plusbump "Oh i just remember the vitamin the argument is flawed,im helping with a study o. Young teenage pregnant girls and majority are deficient and and they are white non muslim girls. We have weak sun in england and not enough of it"

Thats why we need to emphasise our exposure to the little we get here. Recommended is 10-15 minutes per day of at least the face exposed in daylight. But of course its also possible to take Vitamin D supplements, although there are absorbtion problems on occasion.

I don't see why the issue of men being tempted by female flesh is tackled by covering up the female form so excessively, rather than by tackling unacceptable behaviour and bad attitudes towards women by men. Requiring women to cover up seems only likely to guarantee the exacerbation of the problem.

I think Vitamin D is needed for bone growth, along with calcium. So he might be using up more than he is getting in, or failing to absorb it properly.

Do you put sunscreen on him? Now that we use sunscreen due to cancer fears there are more children with vit D defiencies as the sunscreen stops the skin being able to absorb it from sunlight

Yup sunscreen, lack of calcium, the weak sun. We need about 15-20 mins of strong sunshine twice a day everyday...its no possible. We are all on supplements on my family.
This summer im not going to use too much sunscreen either and see how it goes,also if you are darker skin its harder
to absorb.
Basically they think a large percentage of the population is deficent.

I get that the goverment and society have the right to be offended by my tits and front bottom on show when I am on the street. Beyond that, what I wear is my business. Whether I want to wear a bikini or a burka, it's up to me as an adult in charge of myself.

People have the right to comment, but the government has no right to legistlate. I'll wear what I want, when I want.

I think the foundation was for him LOL

Spoken like a true toddler.

Why don't you try walking about town in your underwear tomorrow, then?

shame, people are more consern about the one covering and not the one naked, mind you're one business, and leave them what ever they wear, most of this people talking about the covering women are the one naked, they find it hard to cover, so good for the one cover. they also feel that the one covred are bettre than them if no why they will be bothered them.......

Well i do i am a white woman!!

ignore ignore ignore

so how are your male frinds?

going clubbibng next weekend without DH?

Anyone seen taming of the shrew? Such a sad and disturbing play, it is really uncomfortable to watch and think about it. Just like the burka :(

I agree with math and also nijinksy who said this:
"Correct me if I'm wrong, but the current increase in wearing of the burka has much more to do with the radicalisation of Islam in recent times and is not traditional to many Muslim cultures at all."

It should be noted that most Muslim groups in France have not spoken out about the law, and when they have, they've said we don't like it but we are French and we live by French law.

The most vociferous protestors it seems were British, who travelled there to protest and at least one of whom is being deported as a threat to public order.

just to clarify, not all the one wearing burka does not speak english or are not english, they can speak english and some are english and white but still they will ask their husband to shoose things for them if they prefer not to speak, thats their own choice

As far as I know the requirement is "modest" dress for both sexes. Am willing to be corrected.