wanting to have serious words in school about this teacher.

[Oakmaiden]

My daughter was VERY upset today. She is 7 years old, and was asked by her teacher to draw and label a circuit diagram - basically a battery and bulb, led together with 4 crocodile clips. Now the teacher DID say to the class that they should only label one of the crocodile clips, because it would take to long to label them all.

My daughter chose to label them all - and claims she had still finished before most of the class.

Now - the teacher had specifically told them not to do this, so I completely understand her getting into trouble for not following instructions. But I feel the teacher's reaction was WAY over the top - she took my child's work and tore it up in front of the class and made her stay in all playtime to do it again.

Now - whilst I do understand that a reprimand was in order, and if she had had to simply stay in and redo the work I wouldn't have said a word. But really -is it ever acceptable to tear up a child's work? I just think it is so very rude and disrespectful - almost bullying actually. My daughter was devastated.

Beyond this - my daughter tells me that the teacher does this "a lot" - and it makes me really uncomfortable. They are only in Y2! I am really tempted to go in and speak to the head and see what the school policy is on this sort of thing...

Am I being too precious? I just think it is an unacceptable thing to do to any child, really....

This is absolutely dreadful.
Personally I would insist on speaking to the Deputy Head today. And depending on how the school deal with it maybe contact the Governors.
Poor dd

Oakmaiden - totally inappropriate behaviour from the teacher, especially given the age of your daughter and her class.

If you feel you don't want to wait until Monday to speak to the head teacher, you could insist that the headteacher calls you today. Although away on a trip, he's still working and being accessible comes with the territory.

We had some success with a problem teacher last year. Although my daughter wasn't directly targeted, her teacher had a tendency to use bullying/humiliating methods - upsetting for the recipient and the class. We saw the head, asked her what she planned to do to change the teacher's behaviour, and said we would be monitoring the teacher's progress (via feedback from my daugher) and let the headteacher know if any further incidents occurred. We set up a meeting to review the situation a few weeks later, and things did improve.

It will be hard for the headteacher to dispute your case - your daughter's teacher's behaviour will contradict the schools values/behavioural code and anti-bullying policy.

Final thought - is it possible to request an alternative teacher for your son next year?

Good luck with getting it sorted.

Have words with the school.

Back when I was at school the teachers would make us write lines, and not just a few of them but about 100+ or so, and then rip them up in front of us. It's just not a nice thing to do in any shape or form, and I'm sorry your daughter witnessed it.

Thanks for the responses - I am finding it hard to wait until Monday, because I am really feeling upset for my daughter/cross about it. On the other hand - maybe that in itself is a good reason to wait until Monday, if I am not feeling calm about it....

Unfortunately the school is a one form entry school - so my daughter can't change to another class and there is no alternative class for my son to be in next year, either.

Bloody hell the OP was bad enough but all the other anecdotes too are shocking. Why do some teachers seem to get a kick out of humiliating the children they are supposed to care about and encourage?!?

I think moving schools is a very good idea, see where your complaint gets you and tell them if this behaviour is not dealt with you will remove her.

I'd rather disrupt her briefly to move schools, change friends etc, than keep her under the rule of such a horrible teacher.

YADNBU - go straight to the head.

I'd be livid, and it would probably taking and army to keep me from approaching the bully myself...

Also, you keep saying "I know she was told to label only one", but if the teacher explained at the beginning that she only wanted one labelled because of the TIME it would take to do all, then why the bloody hell shouldn't your DD have labelled the other 3 if she had the time, as she clearly did?

I am absolutely LIVID for you, I hope you can sort this out quickly.

Your poor DD, what a disgraceful way to be treated after (a) finishing her work accuately and quikly, and (b) putting more detail and effort in!

Going over and above the requirements were rewards when I was at school, not punished, and certainly not in such a shocking and abusive way...

Sorry, didn't read rest of the thread. If head is away on residential trip, he should still be contactable. I was call back and very firmly demand either to be put through, or for him to call you by the end of the day today as you are not prepared to wait over an entire weekend with an upset DD when you both need an explanation and agreement on how things are going to change.

Definitely don't approach the teacher, s/he sounds unhinged and remarkably cruel!

NoWayNoHow - I guess I just know that my daughter is not the best in the world at following instructions if she thinks she knows best, so I can understand the teacher getting frustrated with her. But the more I think about it, the more it seems like she finishes the work she is given quickly, goes on to do a bit more and is then punished for doing more. Which makes me wonder if actually the teacher isn't really differentiating sufficiently to keep her occupied and challenged. It is a shame because she has always loved doing school work. She is one of these odd children who comes home and finds herself some sums, etc, to do. I just hope she isn't going to end up not wanting to do more than the bare minimum....

I am wondering now if a letter of complaint and withdrawal from the school is the way to go - because frankly I can't see the teacher changing her ways (or not on a permanent basis anyway) she is a few years from retiring, so I think likely to find it hard to change the way she has obviously always interacted with children - and whilst she might change temporarily if under scrutiny by the head, I think is very likely to slip back into her norm. And I also think if I complain and get her into trouble she is less likely to treat my children (and she has daughter this year and will have my son next year) fairly.

Your DD sounds a bit like me at that age. When I was about 9 I had a teacher like that - who thought I was too cocky by half because I tried to second guess her and did more than I was asked to do. She put me down at every opportunity and I ended up not putting myself forward or trying to finish work early. She certainly managed to squash my enthusiasm and I would hate for that to happen to your DD.

How awful that all these other incidents have now come to light - I guess the children are just accepting that their teacher is like that but it's so wrong.

most schools have a head teacher and a deputy head
could you speak to the deputy?
if this happened to my child i would be at the school kicking up a stink

oakmaiden you're probably spot on - your DD sounds like she needs slightly more than what's on offer in order to be challenged. Maybe putting her in the other school, if it's academic, is the way forward - not only do you then not need to hope and pray that this nasty piece of work teacher changes, you may also be putting your DD in an environment that stimulates her and will make her LOVE learning, not hate it (which is what will happen if this teacher continues like this).

When I was 6, I used to finish my work earlier than a lot of the other kids, and thought I was being nice by going round to each child afterwards and helping them with theirs. Teacher told my mother to take me to the paediatrician and get me Ritalin for my hyperactivity. Paeds was SO FURIOUS that he called the teacher directly and told her, "Don't you dare send me children to medicate when they are simply BORED in your class"!!

Oakmaiden, she sounds just plain mean to me - I still remember teachers like that from when I was at school 30 years ago.

If your daughter is otherwise happy at the school and has friends etc, she shouldn't have leave. Its a classic dilemma with bullies and victims and this situation really is no different, she is using her status and power to humiliate and belittle the children in her class. I know it won't be easy, but if you daughter wants to stay, I would try and address the problem rather than deregister her.

I would call the school back and arrange a meeting with the Head first thing on the first day back. Take with you a list of 'incidents' that you are aware of, explain the situation and ask for an action plan. Back this up with a formal letter, detailing all the same things and ask for their response to be given in writing within a specified timeframe (have learned this one recently myself - they hard way).

Most schools anti-bullying policy and code of conduct cover the behaviour of teachers as well as pupils. Check their website and if the policies aren't availabel on there, ask at the office for a copy of each. In most cases, either one or both policies will deal with any behaviour that demeans or humiliates a pupil. Make sure you take the policies with you to the meeting and point out that the teacher is in breech of their own codes and policies.

Is it a dual form intake? If so, is there any chance your son could be placed in another class next year rather than having to go into hers?

There used to be a teacher like that at my ds's school, parents did complain and eventually she was offered the choice of early retirement or going part-time. She chose part-time and it was the making of her. Turns out she was ridiculously stressed, depressed and not coping. She's a different teacher now she has had a lot of her workload removed, she is still strict, but there's none of the unreasonable or intimidating behaviour anymore and she's actually one of the more popular teachers in the junior school. I was so worried about my ds having her, but they get on like a house on fire. He thinks she's lovely and she is really supportive of him despite his SENs making him quite disruptive in lessons at times. In the old days she would have eaten him for breakfast had he behaved like that in one of her lessons, regardless of his SENs. So things can change for the better, but nothing will change at all unless parents kick up a stink and don't allow their children to be treated like this. Are any of the other parents willing to back you up? Perhaps the Mums of the other girls you mention?

It makes me so angry when children's school days are marred by vindictive adults. Its hard enough for them to navigate all the stresses and strains of school as it is, without being worried and afraid of the very people they should be looking to for help and support.

Good luck, I hope you manage to get it all sorted out for your dd. Hopefully she can have a lovely holiday and try to forget about it all for a while.

The weirdest thing about all this is your dd has been punished on more than one occasion for doing EXTRA work! How is the teacher encouraging excellence when children don't dare do extra work? I have taught for 10 years and would never ever rip up a child's work, there is no justification for it whatsoever and the head should be able to assure you she will never be allowed to do it again.

you shouldn't have to "run away" from the school just because the teacher is a bully. She's basically punishing the children for being keen. What is that teaching them? to do as little as possible and keep their heads down? I think you need to kick a big fuss about this, for your DD, you DS and for the DCs of so many other parents who might not have the guts to do it. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

I think even if you will withdraw DD, you should attempt to get this situation sorted first. Teachers like that shouldn't just be allowed to act however cruelly they want.

Oakmaiden - eurgh, that teacher sounds horrible, your poor DD. It's never acceptable to rip up a childs work.

When I was 8 I had a maths test, I was bad at maths generally (I have SN) but it was on a topic I found easier and I was doing well with it. The girl who sat next to me finished a few minutes before and took the work to the teacher, she praised her in front of everyone a) for finishing first and b) for getting every single answer right. As my friend sat back down, I took my finished paper up and had also got everything right. The teacher just said 'oh, what a surprise, Minty who never does well at Maths sits next to Lydia and gets all the questions right a few minutes later... cheating is wrong children'. I explained I hadn't cheated, I'd genuinely got all the questions right by myself, plus I'd still been finishing it when Lydia was having hers marked so didn't have access to her paper. Lydia and the other two girls on my table both said that they'd not seen me cheat and that Lydia had given me no help, I'd just quietly got on with what I was meant to be doing. She still insisted I'd cheated and I got a 0.

People like that shouldn't be teaching.

bitch
go to town, shes seven and was showing off her writting skill.
see the head
put in in writting to cc a copy to school governors don't take this lying down, if another pupil had done that then the school would be on top of it, am furious on your behalf
or try curryspice advice first

Tearing up a child's work is NEVER acceptable. Ever. No matter what the child has done. This is extremely bad practice.

The head needs to know this is happening in time for the next Ofsted inspection- tearing up children's work as a sanction will not go down well.

Under the circs in the OP, TOTALLY unacceptable behaviour from the teacher, it is very unfair and overkill in my view to do this out of the blue. I would have thought merely a one to one verbal comment or a loss of marks for failing to follow instructions would have sufficed?! This after all, was not a major act of defiance, and seeing it as such suggests a rather skewed view of reality.

But - I will confess that as a teacher I did rip some work in half on one isolated occasion. These were the circumstances:
Tough class, tough secondary school.
End of year test -exam conditions.
Class warned in advance any cheating, or talking in the test would result in punishment and resitting the test in detention. In four years of teaching at that school, only one kid failed to take this instruction seriously enough to cause me to rip up his work.
A boy aged 14 insisted on talking, (not whispering) to his friend - rest of class silent and trying to concentrate. He did this once, and was warned. When he talked again, I ripped up his exam paper in front of the class and send him out of the room. He sat his test after school.

In retrospect I think I gave him one warning too many - he was disturbing the rest of the class during a test. But I really really did not want to actually have to rip up his paper. It was a last resort, but having threatend to do it, I had to follow through. Also this age of child must learn how to conduct themselves under strict exam conditions or they run the risk of getting chucked out of public exams in the future and suffering the consequences. I think whatever humiliation he may have experienced, (and I'm not convinced he did), was actually a useful if uncomfortable learning experience.

I posted this because some posters said there are no circumstances in which a teacher should rip up work. I maintain there are some, but they are very few and far between. So was I being unreasonable?

No Sandfish, in your istance it wouldn't have estroyed a child's confidence. In a real exam (and at 14 he wasn't far off that) the consequences would have been disqualification. The lesson needed to be learn.

In the OP and for any young primary age child confidence is often more of a key than actual ability.

Good luck on Monday. I would be inclined to write everything down now so you don't forget. You also might want to ask for your more recent post to be edited as you mentioned your dd by name.

when my son was 8 he was in p3 and his teacher ripped up a mothers day card he made for me because he wouldnt stand in line. I was going to rip her head off , head never did anything about it when i complained either but that was 10 years ago, things have changed, good luck