wanting to have serious words in school about this teacher.

[Oakmaiden]

My daughter was VERY upset today. She is 7 years old, and was asked by her teacher to draw and label a circuit diagram - basically a battery and bulb, led together with 4 crocodile clips. Now the teacher DID say to the class that they should only label one of the crocodile clips, because it would take to long to label them all.

My daughter chose to label them all - and claims she had still finished before most of the class.

Now - the teacher had specifically told them not to do this, so I completely understand her getting into trouble for not following instructions. But I feel the teacher's reaction was WAY over the top - she took my child's work and tore it up in front of the class and made her stay in all playtime to do it again.

Now - whilst I do understand that a reprimand was in order, and if she had had to simply stay in and redo the work I wouldn't have said a word. But really -is it ever acceptable to tear up a child's work? I just think it is so very rude and disrespectful - almost bullying actually. My daughter was devastated.

Beyond this - my daughter tells me that the teacher does this "a lot" - and it makes me really uncomfortable. They are only in Y2! I am really tempted to go in and speak to the head and see what the school policy is on this sort of thing...

Am I being too precious? I just think it is an unacceptable thing to do to any child, really....

[Oakmaiden]

Reporting back.

I managed to "assert" my way into seeing the head today - my friend told me she had seen him bring the children back from their residential trip, so I phoned and insisted on making an appointment before the end of school. (I was assertive, not aggressive - I told him I really didn't want it to wait until after the weekend as it was something I was feeling very strongly about).

So, anyway. I went, and explained the situation to him. He agreed that ripping up a child's work as a display of "power" (his phrase, not mine) was unacceptable and said he would investigate. He said that the teacher had told him about my daughter being reprimanded for writing too many labels, but that she hadn't mentioned tearing up the work (funny that). He also agreed that even missing her playtime was a bit excessive and she could have simply been asked to rub out the extra work (it was in pencil).

I mentioned that my daughter is finding the entire classroom environment quite "shouty" (her word) and punitive (my word) and he said that there were some children in the class that did need a firm hand, and strict approach, but that he would investigate to see if the balance has slipped too far. I told him about a few of the other incidents recently, and he agreed that it did seem to be a case of the punishments being offered not really meeting the crime.

He also said that he would check the teacher's planning for the class, because he wondered if suitable work is not being provided for my daughter and a few of the other brighter children which means that they are finishing far too quickly and having time to go "off task" in the ways described. He suggested that my daughter should be getting level 3's by the end of the year, and he would expect her to be working ABOVE level 5 by year 6. I mention this simply because, at parents evening last week, the teacher would not commit to whether my daughter would be able to be working at level 3 by the end of the year, saying instead "oh, she should be a high 2, anyway". Which really does make me think that she really doesn't meet the needs of the more able children.

Anyway - apparently he is going to go over this with the teacher, and have my daughter in the office for a chat, and also said when he had got to the bottom of it he will catch me and update me on what is happening.

So - hoping it is not all just soothing words, and will be accompanied by actions. Not sure how to find out if things are actually changing though, without trying to get my daughter to "report" on her teacher to me - which I don't think would be a very good idea. I think she needs to be able to respect her teacher, but I also think her teacher needs to behave more respectfully to the class.... watch this space...

[scurryfunge]

Well done.....sounds like the head will investigate properly.

[manicinsomniac]

Wow, you were definitely not being unreasonable and well done for dealing with it calmly but firmly.

I would never rip up a child's work, especially not a 7 year old. Only once have I ever done something even remotely similar and that was when one of my English classes were sent home with a poem to write for a whole school competition as homework. One boy came in with a very well known children's poem he had copied off the internet. I glanced at it, tossed it into the bin (didn't rip it or screw it up) said 'that was pointless wasn't it' and moved on to the next child. He was 11. I didn't ask him to do it again, just marked him in as a 0. I do now think that I was a little harsh to do that but it was my first term teaching.

[sandfish]

Hmm. Reading between the lines, my theory is that it sounds like this teacher is not coping with this class in terms of discipline. She senses it is getting out of control and is reacting by dishing out ever more severe punishments, as a reaction to her loss of control of some pupils and her fear of disobedience spreading.

Your daughter got caught in the crossfire perhaps, or maybe the teacher thinks that by being seen to be ultra strict she will regain control. In reality, even young children know when punishments are unfair and this tends to unite them against the teacher.

The learning of the all the students in the class will suffer if this continues, including your daughter. I would guess that this teacher is inexperienced and may lack skills in the area of discipline- but you cant necessarily blame her entirely for that if she is an NQT, everyone has to start somewhere. She may have the potential to be an excellent teacher, but if the class, or a significant proportion of the class won't behave the other children will learn nothing.

In this case, the head should support her by putting in some strategies for dealing with the kids with the behaviour issues. I speak as someone who, as a NQT was assigned the form that none of the other established and experienced teachers wanted to deal with. That was a hellish year. It shouldn't happen in schools, but it does...

[Oakmaiden]

sandfish, your theory would be very reasonable except for the fact she is definitely not an NQT. She is actually a few years off retiring, and the sort of teacher who was probably teaching the parents of the children she now teaches. Which, of course,may be a big part of the problem. Times have changed, and it is possible that she simply... hasn't...

[elphabadefiesgravity]

I've reported your post. You left the name in.

[new2cm]

YANBU.

I remember an NSPCC advert featuring a boy sat down at the table looking sadly at the adult tearing up his work. The voice-over implied this was a type of abuse.

[sandfish]

Oh well then in that case I guess she might just be a embittered, dried up joyless old bat who no longer enjoys the company of children and shouldn't be teaching. Sounds like she can't be bothered to set work appropriate to the top end of the class ability wise. It doesn't sound great and I don't blame you for considering a move. But what are the rest of the teaching staff like at the current school? Could she get a better teacher next year? There are good and not so good staff in all schools ...what happens if you move her and she's fine for the rest of this year but gets a rotten teacher next year?

You do realise you mentioned your daughters name again in your post at 18:42 as well don't you?

[Oakmaiden]

Elphaba - blimey - I am SOOOO bad at this incognito thing! Thanks!

[new2cm]

I was going to mention that - what is next academic's year teacher like? If she is a good teacher, I would not move my child, but be extra supportive for the summer term. If next year's teacher is equally as bad as handling the class, then perhaps it is time to change school.

Usually I don't recommend changing schools unless the situation is beyond redemption. The fact that the headmaster seems supportive is a good thing, and I would stick it out. You would have to be sure that you are not jumping out of the frying pan into the fire, so to speak. You do not want to move your child into another school which could be worse IYSWIM.

[pawsnclaws]

Oh that's so sad. But I think you did the right thing tackling it.

Something very similar happened to me at the same age, and my mum went in to see the teacher and told her that she had behaved unacceptably. It's the only time I can ever recall my parents complaining about anything (we were taught to respect our elders even if they were wrong) but my mum said at the time that the teacher was a bully, and she was right. I still remember that one occasion when my mum basically fought my corner and taught me that bullying by anyone is not OK.

[girliefriend]

Blimey not read the whole thread but felt had to comment, what a horrible thing for a teacher to do, makes me feel sick, your poor daughter. What is depressing is that that incident will probably stay with her for a long time.

Well done for being assertive, if a teacher ever did that to my dd I would go ballistic and prob insist they moved her to a different class or something!!!!

[Oakmaiden]

sandfish - there are a couple of average teachers and a couple more very good teachers in the school I think. This is balanced against the all very good teachers in KS1 + 2 in the other school though (I have worked there briefly on uni placement - it is an excellent school - very warm and welcoming). And the fact my son will be in this woman's class next year too.

[vintageteacups]

okamaiden glad you managed to sort things through with the head; from what you say, he does sound concerned and wasn't over careful with his replies, implying he found it unacceptable behaviour from her.

Hope you manage to get a good resolution and that your dd finds it easier in class. If not, I'd consider moving them whilst they're little enough for it not to impact too greatly.

[googoomama]

I am a teacher of Y5 to Y7 and my oldest son is a Year 2 pupil. The behaviour of this teacher is COMPLETELY unacceptable. Aside from the fact that even telling your daughter off for labelling all the clips is unreasonable (she was only being extra conscientious and anyway who cares if she labelled more than one clip in the time allowed - it isn't a NASA lab!!!) tearing up her work is completely humiliating and utterly cruel. I would definitely go into school to complain and I'm one of those parents who has never been in to complain but if a teacher did that to my child I would definitely go in. For a 7 year old it is not only humiliating but also rather scary. When I was 17, a teacher tore up my homework in front of the class too. I've never forgotten it. He was a complete bully. And I was 17 - she is only 7! The head should be extremely unhappy about this and if he or she isn't, then there is something wrong with the ethos of the school. If I tore up a child's work in front of the class, I would immediately receive a written warning - quite rightly in my opinion. I wouldn't go and see the teacher first, actually. I would go and see the head. This behaviour breaches the code of conduct for teachers. Good luck and let us know what happens. Poor soul. Hope she's ok. I'm really annoyed for you!

[googoomama]

Oh and just read the part where you said you'd been in to see the head. Reading between the lines as a teacher, it sounds very much like the head already has his eye on her. Very good point he made about whether her planning is differentiated for the brighter pupils. Although labelling extra things is NOT bad behaviour. It's just trying to find more work to do after the main work has been done!
I would say that this teacher is going to get a right rollocking. The head didn't really sound surprised by her behaviour. If a parent came in to my head and said that I'd torn up a child's work, the first thing my (very bossy and strict ) head woudl say is "Oh that doesn't sound like Mrs. X!"
And you don't have to get your daughter to "spy" on the teacher but do ask her how everything is going and I would phone the school and make another appointment with the head for a week or two weeks' time in order to get an official update :)

[fascicle]

googoomama said: And you don't have to get your daughter to "spy" on the teacher but do ask her how everything is going and I would phone the school and make another appointment with the head for a week or two weeks' time in order to get an official update



I was just going to make the same point (having contributed my ten penneth's worth earlier in the thread and suggested similar as it worked for us). Incidentally, the teacher we complained about had been teaching for decades and was 'old school'.

Oakmaiden, it sounds like you had a productive meeting with the head and that you pitched it just right. Hopefully you will see some improvements very soon.

[Oakmaiden]

Was approached by the headteacher today, who said he had spoken to the teacher concerned, and she had confirmed that she had torn up my child's work. He said that he didn't think she had been trying to upset my daughter, but that regardless of that, it would NOT happen again. (Said in a very serious voice.)

[vintageteacups]

How on earth would tearing up your dd's work NOT upset her???
Stupid woman (the teacher I mean). Let's hope she behaves herslef from now on.

[Lookandlearn]

I am a teacher and fwiw I have had a couple of supply teachers working for me who did this. I didn't confront it but I asked the secretary not to book them again. Totally unacceptable. Glad the head agreed. I also hope he will support the teacher-she sounds as if not coping. R

[frantic51]

Something similar happened in my DD's class when she was in year 3. Not to my DD but one of her little classmates. It caused a good deal of discussion among the parents at the school gates. The children had apparently been doing a "mock" exam. The girl in question had been talking, expressly against "exam" rules. The teacher claimed to have torn up the paper not to humiliate the child, but rather as a stark warning to the class in general about what would happen in a real public exam if they broke exam rules. We were all a bit but the teacher got away with "a word" from the head.

[elphabadefiesgravity]

You see I can understand it in an exam situation as lng as the children are given sufficient warning.