children can make their own mind up about religion when they grow up...

[AliGrylls]

Okay I have just read this on another thread but this is a statement I hear quite a lot and want to ask the question.

If all you teach your child is atheism how will they make their mind up about religion when they grow up because they have no religion other than atheism?

They will know nothing other than what you have taught them so they have nothing to make their mind up about - they will be atheist, by default. If people genuinely want their children to make their own mind up they have to provide them with a reasonable alternative (ie, Judaism / Christianity / Islam).

I don't actually know any adults who have been brought up atheist who have thought all of a sudden "I believe in God, I am going to go to Church".

what is your definition of Evil Rose?

And in that spirit I reserve the right to think that faith/religion is misplaced and has caused lots of grief on a macro and micro level for a very long time.

How is misplaced- what do you mean by this? Is this grief a constant? Does religion ever produce anything but greif?

Religion produces plenty of happiness and wealth for those peddling it. Because the people who make up religion are free to invent and reinvent the rules, they are and always have been able to make the rules benefit them and their mates. But then that's always been its main purpose.

your logic doesn't follow. I don't need to explain things I don't believe exist. How do you explain faeries and unicorns?
"evil" does not refer.

If you want to ask that question you need to define your understanding of the phenomena you call "evil" or "human nature" and ask me again. As it stands, your question makes no sense.

I don't believe in evil or human nature, so I'll disagree with you on both counts

I don't understand that at all. Of course human nature is the same-most questions boil down to money or power-basically money which gives power. You only have to read MN to see human nature at work!

I wasn't saying that no religion gives evil-just that it doesn't make any difference. Things are done in the name of religion, but it is all a power struggle if you get to the bottom of it.

You deny the exsistance of evil?

I have indeed rather respectfully already asked you for your defintion/ explantion of these entities. It does not fall on me to construct your answer.

You have provided no answer.

It is possible to have a faith without taking part in any organised religion-I expect millions fall into that bracket.

You realise MN doesn't cover the whole world? Money? There are human societies even now that don't value money, and used to be a lot more. Power, ownership, all of that, you are talking about social conditioning and individual societal norms, not human nature.

There is no ONE nature that covers all humans, ergo, there is no such thing as human nature. You need to expand your vocabulary.

Stalin was evil without religion.

If human nature wasn't the same the world over communism would work. People look after themselves first. Have you never read Animal Farm?

Roseflower, one cannot offer an explanation of something that one does not believe exists, evidently. You believe in evil, it falls to you to offer an explanation.

How can I explain your concept of this "evil" of which you speak?

Arf @ have you never read animal farm.

Sorry, that was a joke, yes?

I do deny the existence of evil as an entity, 'evil' is something that people do, it's not like the fecking force/darkside. It's not a 'thing'.

I think you have to define 'evil' if you want an explanation for it. Personally, I think people are capable of evil acts, but I don't believe in 'evil' as a seperate entity.

Winter

Your philosophy is rather unique- its is nonscenical to say we have no logic, need expand vocanulary because your view is different

If you have contructed a brand new view of human life, why would you not want to explain it? I do not understand why you would become aggitated.

Ooh, alistron...spooky!

Winter's philosophy is not unique. There are many, many people who agree with her.

chicken...it's 'the force' I tell you!!!

It wasn't a joke Winter. If human nature isn't down to power why do we have porn? Why do people think they can exploit other human beings and treat them like a piece of meat rather than an equal human being?

Rose, can you define this evil entity that you believe in? Are we talking satan and his little imps?

Rather simple logic you seem unable to follow here:

You: blahdeblah evil
Me: I don't believe in evil
You: How do you explain evil then?
Me: Er, I don't, I just said I don't think it exists.
You: I'm still waiting fo you to explain evil
Me: well its still not existing, what more would you like exactly?

You see the problem? And its hardly brand new.

I also don't understand what you mean by 'evil'.

online dictionaries describe it as 'morally bad or wrong, wicked'

Winter's philosophy is not unique. There are many, many people who agree with her.

But you don't and neither does alitron

I think people are capable of evil acts, but I don't believe in 'evil' as a seperate entity.

'evil' is something that people do,

Winter is denying evil entirely. Who else agrees?

See, I struggle with the Satan idea, because it basically absolves people of responsibility. It makes victims of us all.

exotic, not all cultures have porn. Thats why its not a HUMAN nature, which would have to encompass all humans, by definition. You mean "the shared common mores of a particular subset of humans", not human nature.

I don't think I'm being that obscure am I? Anyone?