Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

children can make their own mind up about religion when they grow up...

814 replies

AliGrylls · 07/04/2011 12:05

Okay I have just read this on another thread but this is a statement I hear quite a lot and want to ask the question.

If all you teach your child is atheism how will they make their mind up about religion when they grow up because they have no religion other than atheism?

They will know nothing other than what you have taught them so they have nothing to make their mind up about - they will be atheist, by default. If people genuinely want their children to make their own mind up they have to provide them with a reasonable alternative (ie, Judaism / Christianity / Islam).

I don't actually know any adults who have been brought up atheist who have thought all of a sudden "I believe in God, I am going to go to Church".

OP posts:
exoticfruits · 08/04/2011 18:32

It isn't something that really bothers me much ivykate, until you get narrow minded people who won't accept that a DC is a free spirit and are dead scared they are 'indoctrinated' i.e. hear something not sanctioned by mum and dad and then I feel obliged to make my point. Since I have made it over and over again I think it is time to shut up! People can say what they like but they have no control over DCs mind.(and a good thing too).

Fab123 · 08/04/2011 19:15

Exotic my ex fiancée's mum did exactly that. He was adamant our child would be christened and have to go to church every Sunday. His mum used to do the Sunday School at their local church and it was "assumed" we would bring up our child Christian. My ex never bothered with church and tbh I was very surprised indeed when he suddenly declared all of this half a year before we were due to get married as I had always thought he was laid back about religion and we would let our child decide what they wanted as and when. He was of course unwilling to be the one to take them to Sunday school and didn't understand why I found this objectionable. If it hadn't been for this huge revelation and several heated debates around the dinner table with his parents I would probably have gone on to marry this man. As it was religion and the idea of forcing our child into a faith I had never needed was one of the major factors that pulled that relationship apart. He is still single and looking, I expect for a like-minded lapsed Christian who is willing to rejuvinate their faith when they breed so that his parent's find them acceptable...

gordyslovesheep · 08/04/2011 19:18

oh gosh - not read this yet but I am bringing my children up to have freedom - I am a humanist and I respect peoples faith and right to belief - I take the kids to loads of different 'churches' and festivals and we discuss faith

at the moment (during the census) both big girls defined themselves as Christian - they both ask to attend church and go to church youth club - if they change their minds I will support them - if as adults they follow this faith and wish to become confirmed I will support them

I did not have my children Christend for this reason - they may decided to be aithiest, or humanist or Muslim or Jewish etc - their choice

gorionine · 08/04/2011 19:23

"I did not have my children Christend for this reason - they may decided to be aithiest, or humanist or Muslim or Jewish etc - their choice"

I was Christened and still chose to be a Muslim when I grew up. I do not think that Christening a child stop them from choosing when they are old enough to do so.

gordyslovesheep · 08/04/2011 19:29

no but I don't want to make that choice FOR THEM at any stage and it would be stupid to have them christend when I am not Christian Grin

I was raised High Anglican and was involved in the Church all my childhood - I understand your point but for my kids it wasn;t an option :)

giveitago · 08/04/2011 20:51

I think the starting point for kids is believing what their parents believe in. When they grow up they can make up their own minds but alot stay in the same faith (if it's a faith background they have). But I have lots of friends with athiest parents who turned to religion.

My background is that my parents are of different faiths. One didn't dominate the other and I wasn't particularly encouraged to go with either. Many years on I'm happy to go along with relgious ceremonies with either but I'm not religous.

I thought that was also the best approach for my ds who's dad is of another faith. But with that relaxed and slippy slidy attitude from me my dh and his family have stepped right in with their religion and I'm frankly shocked that my 4 year old is suddenly talking about their faith with clearly no idea of what it means. It's got to the stage where I've told ds I don't believe just to get a bit of balance but I fully expect ds to want to commit himself to this faith shortly without actually knowing what it is.

I find that very strange in such a young child. It's all coming from the one source and it's already got to the point where he's questioning us about our beliefs in relation to this faith and he's lost interest in his other backgrounds.

I guess it's a case of he who shouts the loudest.

NorthernGobshite · 08/04/2011 21:01

We didn't have dd christened as I feel it is hypocritical for people with no faith to do so.

Fab123 · 08/04/2011 22:17

Who shouts loudest when the subject is most vulnerable, possibly giveitago. Hope you are able to get that balance back :)

BTSynergy · 08/04/2011 22:39

Bible - Morals? Confused maybe some bits.

If you pray to God, he will kill your enemies for you. Psalms 9:3-6
How kind!
God will decorate the land with the bones and dead bodies of those who worship a different god. Ezekiel 6:4-5
fiesty!
^God admits that he does evil things to people. Jeremiah 18:11
honest^
Treat the poor fairly. Exodus 23:6
Yes, there a few pearls of wisdom amongst the bile

Roseflower · 08/04/2011 23:07

Been on the Skeptics Annotated wesbite by any chance? Hmm

GrimmaTheNome · 08/04/2011 23:46

Spare the rod and spoil the child....

You don't need to go on any website to know that one, treated as good morality in the Bible Belt. I was reminded of it by reading the first couple of pages of The Moral Landscape by Sam Harris which arrived yesterday for DH... wish I'd had time to read more before this particular debate came up!

Those content to have their morals imposed by religious dogma seem sometimes (not always, if the cap doesn't fit you don't wear it) to lag behind the ethical standards of secular society. Attitudes to homosexuality... women's rights...

BTSynergy · 09/04/2011 08:29

That's right Roseflower - saves a lot of time! What's with the Hmm? Isn't that allowed?

exoticfruits · 09/04/2011 08:36

I think that people ought to read the 'what do your parents disapprove about you' thread and note that no one amends, or changes, their behaviour-their parents may disapprove but they go ahead and do it anyway!

Adult DCs will please themselves and parents have to accept it, even if it goes against their own feelings and it would be a very dysfunctional relationship if every thought and act had to have parental approval.

Roseflower · 09/04/2011 12:26

BTsynery

Like anything in life, if you are going to quote a source, be it in writing or vocally you should quote the actual source not a second hand intrepetation taken from a biased website.

Thats all.

NetworkGuy · 10/04/2011 02:01

Marking thread for some fresh laughs in the morning after I wake up.

seashore · 10/04/2011 12:52

Actually I know of one who is now living in a closed order as a nun. So it does happen.

fulllife · 10/04/2011 14:30

i wish more people would consider raising their children without imprinting their own religious beliefs on them so strongly.
nowadays its not seldom for people to change their religious orientation a few times in life while searching for their place in the "spritual society", for example starting out plain old anglican then turning pentecostal and ending up in something nieche. so when you are dragging your child along for all these discoveries and enlightenments you are actually showing him how unstable and fickle religious beliefs are.
i think instead of teaching children a fixed value set through their holy book, parents should go through the trouble of identifiying their own set of values and find ways to pass them on to their children without the crutch of bible stories etc. but more through personal example, life stories, comments on peoples behaviour and co.
i was brought up by my parents into a very nieche christian belief that tought me mostly:
a) i am different from others
b) the others are probably bad, i.e. controlled by the other side, because they dont share my narrow beliefs
c) life on the other side is scary and not safe
d) the real important life is not the life we have now but the one after death
it took me at least 10 years of soulsearching and trying to fit into church and failing to finally find stable ground in my own (atheist) beliefs. even though i have managed to "reprogram" myself, i dont think i will ever forgive my parents for teaching me fear and separation and wishful thinking instead of joyful acceptance of the world as it is, seeing a friend in everyone and the happiness that is found in creating your own destiny.

Snorbs · 10/04/2011 15:12

Er, Roseflower, BTSynergy did reference the source of the quotes - it was the "Psalms 9:3-6" bit that was the clue.

Although I find it curious that you criticise the means by which the quotes were sourced yet made no comment on the content of the quotes themselves. A less charitable person than myself might suggest you were attempting a Chewbacca defence.

exoticfruits · 10/04/2011 17:37

Exactly fulllife, life is a lottery and you got parents with narrow beliefs, some get atheists, some get Muslims, some get Quakers etc etc-the thing that I don't understand is why you are stuck with it for life!
Life is your journey and your parents have their own. They obviously start you off, and bring you up with their own lifestyle and beliefs, but eventually they have to wave you off on your own path-why that has to follow theirs or even why they expect it, or will be 'disappointed' or worried if 'people mess' with you (i.e. dare to tell you that not everyone thinks the same),if they don't follow- is the bit that I don't understand. Going off on your own path doesn't mean that you can't spendlots of time together and enjoy each others company.

I also don't see why it is stuck for life, I am a Christian, I might not always be-I could become an atheist, I might explore Buddhism-who knows? Who knows where my DCs will go? Sometimes the journey is more exciting than arriving.

It seems to me that people differ with their own parents because they hold views they don't agree with, but they are then so sensible that their own DCs must agree- whereas in actual fact your DC may think that you are nutty and the grandparents are the sensible ones!

exoticfruits · 10/04/2011 17:39

differ from or argue with-I seem to have muddled the two.

ChocolatewithRosie · 10/04/2011 20:56

great post fulllife,

exotic fruits, can I just point out to you and everyone else who persists in this- being atheist is not having 'narrow 'beliefs'. It is having no belief. It may seem subtle, but it's a very big difference.

RedbinD · 10/04/2011 21:08

I would take the definition of atheist a bit further. An atheist is someone who has studied and critically assessed the theist beliefs , and reached the conclusion that they are all superstitious crap. If you want a good laugh about this sort of thing google "answers in genesis".

exoticfruits · 10/04/2011 21:25

I wasn't referrring to atheists with 'narrow beliefs'-I was referring to fulllife's parents.

MIFLAW · 11/04/2011 11:10

Re roseflower's link

I liked this bit best.

"When you begin the discipline with the physical, which the child can understand, you will get to a point where the reproof is all you need."

Ah, yes - NOW I understand the difference between "spare the rod and spoil the child" and what good ol' Solomon ACTUALLY meant. I feel so foolish now.