To ask genuinely, why people don't get married?

[Lookandlearn]

if they are in a committed, permanent relationship and have children? It's a genuine question and I am happy to be ignored if it's too mosey, but gives an airing to side issues from another thread on here.

I'm sure the medical team will have final say because they are not daft and realise that a person's partner/spouse may not always have best interests of patient at hand.

Personally, I would never buy a house or have children with anyone unless I had made proper provision for my future and that of my children. Whether I was married or not.

Millions do seeker, however.

Wamster- No that is not the case. Issues of consent are treated very carefully so for instance, blood transfusions would not be given to someone who had refused them on religous grounds. If that person is a unconcious that is the next of kin. So it can be literally a matter of life or death.

If someone had left a faith and not married you could have situation where the next of kin (the parents) insisted on treatment according to standards that the person and their partner did not agree with.

I think it's comforting to think that you have the same legal rights as married people, even when you have legal paperwork in place. But this is not the case.

If faced with a medical emergency, you are either married or unmarried and if unmarried you are not going to be classed as next of kin necessarily. It was the thought of my vile MIL being my husbands next of kin that crystallised our desire to be wed.

My mother was officially next of kin to my co habiting with children sister some years back in a medical situation. They were married as soon as she was fit and well again, it shocked them.

in england nok, is not defined by law and can be any capeable adult. in scotland nok is also not defined there is no legal definition of Next of Kin in Scotland and it can be whoever a person appoints. Usual Practice was this would be deemed to be the closest relative (by blood or marriage) but it can in fact be anyone you choose. If there is any dubiety here it may be worth you nominating your next of kin in a written format if you wish. scotland did discuss whether cp would automatically be nok, but did not go down that route. in reality these days most trusts and gp acknowledged and aware nok not necessarily immediate family

common myth is that it is family only-this is not the case. you can nominate your next of kin, you must inform the NHS trust, GP etc.get it documented in notes this can be a cohabitee. all competent adult patients are asked to nominate their next of kin formally on admission to hospital. This is not simply a contact number but has potential significance, as the nominated person must be willing to best reflect what they believe would have been your wishes in the event of your incapacity or death. It is this person that staff would turn to for advice/guidance/help about your care if you were unable to respond yourself. For example, this might be because you are unconscious or unable to communicate due to illness or injury.
in the event of your death, it is your next of kin who would be consulted about bereavement issues such as making funeral arrangements, arranging a hospital post mortem or organ/tissue donation.

the role of next of kin is to express your likely wishes when you cannot.Your next of kin cannot consent or withhold consent for care on your behalf. But as your next of kin, their views on what you would have decided will be sought. These views will contribute to the decision that the clinicians caring for you (and who have a duty to act in your best interest) will make regarding your treatment and care. Thus, if you cannot make that decision for yourself, the final decision of care rests with the clinician in charge of your care.

If, in the case of an emergency, were nok not nominated nhs would seek advice from whoever we believe to be 'closest' to you and best able to reflect your wishes; for example, your current partner or closest relative.

Historically, the next of kin was the spouse or nearest relative of the patient, but Your next of kin does not need to be a blood relative or spouse; they can be your long-term partner, cohabitee or even a close friend.

Whoever they are, you must ensure that the person you nominate is aware of the duty/responsibility that being next of kin may entail, e.g. they may have to make treatment decisions on your behalf Need ask them if they are willing to be nominated as your next of kin.

you can nominate your nok via gp and this will be recorded in notes

I have had 2 kidney transplants and dp was named as next of kin on all the forms etc and no one batted an eyelid or asked any questions I needed a blood transfusion as an emergency and they rang him Sometimes people just use their common sense

Great post, Scottishmummy.

I am DP's next of kin. I have been called in specifically to advise on treatment decisions for him and we are (as previously covered) not married. Your sister was poorly advised, Jogon.

yes.much more likely to apply common sense about nok, then old dogma,but i cannot emphasise this enough, nominate a nok if you think it will be problematic. there is a lot of training and awareness around nok these days and there is a NOK card too that people can complete

I'm fairly sure next of kin doesn't mean much, they can't insist on or refuse treatment on your behalf, and if you're unable to consent/decide yourself then the medical staff make the decision that they judge to be in your best interest.

As people have said, nok can be anyone you choose, doesn't have to be a relative or spouse.

nominate your nok card.this will guide nhs staff and make your wishes explicit

nok cant refuse treatment.you can make advanced directive about your wishes eg do not resuscitate

Thanks for the info scottishmumm, that is really useful.

It's interesting that these debates always boil down to the 'what if you die/are ill?' question. As serious as these issues are- and happily we've seen that both issues can be remedied with legal measures for cohabiting couples- it does beg the question: why are some people so intent on others being married that they'll throw out the most extreme what-ifs?

Strikes me they're clutching at straws, as every other argument they put forward relies entirely on subjective opinion and values.

But also- why are people so bothered if others choose not to get married? Is it because it validates their own choices if others do the same as them?

your welcome,happy to help.

Before my 2nd transplant I was found to have something else wrong which delayed the transplant and we were told then in 2000 that the time treating the new condition would cause sufficient delay that the outcome could have been the worst. Thankfully I was able to go ahead with the transplant within the 2 yrs where it was vital and we had some pretty tough conversations with doctors etc but my dp was involved 100% and no one ever asked for any other NOK.or a wedding cert. As I said he had to be involved in many decisions with the docs when I just couldn't. You can also do this legally via a lawyer in a cohabitation agreement

no specific paperwork for nok,wise nominate a choice though,and other assets eg property and money and childcare can be dealt with via a solicitor

You can get a next of kin card though and keep it with your other legal docs just makes it a complete package

yes i posted the nok card link earlier
nominate your nok card.this will guide nhs staff and make your wishes explicit isn't a statutory document but does the trick, but do also let your gp know your nok nomination

Scottishmummy - your NOK posts are very useful.

Would a UK nok card apply in other countries too? I guess other countries would use their own rules for next of kin if something dreadful happened while my DP or I were abroad?

A related issue that I've been pondering is what happens as we age. If my DP or I were to develop dementia or be in a coma or be mentally incapacitated some other way, the other one would need to be able manage our affairs.

Perhaps another thing we should add to the list of things to sort out is something like a Living Will? And maybe Power of Attourny?

See, if you are married you don't need expensive solicitors or NOK cards. ;)

Actually, I think DH's death in service payout is spousal only. Will check.

uk law applicable only in uk,but certainly documenting your explicit and clear wishes to health care practitioners is good idea

for same sex couples maybe google European law and ILGA-Europe is the European region of the International Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Trans and Intersex Association (ILGA) www.ilga-europe.org/home/about_us/what_is_ilga_europe

nok card is free to download,although can just tell gp your nok nomination

no. partners can be nominated for work related death benefits too,not only spouses

Actually, Jogon, a married person would need a NOK card too. Especially if they didn't want their spouse to be their NOK. And not only due to an impending divorce. If your spouse had dementia, you might want someone else to be your NOK.

I always joke with dp about his in service payment so i know it can be given to a nominated person not just a spouse. Scottishmummy have you implemented all these things We have wills and other stuff with our solicitor and dp is NOK etc Have we forgotten anything?