To have been a bit judgy about these people at a baptism?

[JaneS]

There was a baptism as part of the Sunday service this morning. A group of people came, dressed up in sort of posh party clothes, whom I've never seen at church before and who clearly weren't familiar with the structure of the service. Now, I can understand why you might as an occasional church-goer still have some attachment to baptism as a ceremony and want to go through with it, or you might feel it's a nice social occasion and a good opportunity to get dressed up. That is understandable. But AIBU to have felt a bit upset that these people chattered the whole way through the service - not just mum and dad quieting the baby, before you ask, but all of them chatting to each other and not even pretending to listen to the normal bits of the service? I suspect I am going to get flamed here, but would you feel a bit upset if this was your church that you took seriously?

I know what you mean LRD. We often have baptisms at our church where the families never attend from one year to the next. I don't mind about that because I think it is about the child not the baptism party. Our vicar is brilliant with baptism parties because he understands that they will be unfamiliar with the proceedings and changes the service accordingly. For example we usually sing the Lord's prayer, but at baptisms we say it. I think the congregation should make people feel as welcome as possible, but I draw the line when the visitors behave in a disrespectful manner.

Last time we had a christening one of the members of the christening party chewed gum all the way through the service. Not only that he couldn't even do it with his mouth closed. Chewing gum is an unattractive habit anyway, but I felt that during a church service it was downright rude. I had to leave early to collect my daughter, and another member of the congregation left at the same time. She also expressed her disgust at this young man's behaviour.

So I am being judgy now. Our church is just C of E BTW and we have a broad minded vicar who worked in the real world before joining the church.

i did this - we baptised our eldest without bothering to regularly go to church. we'll do the same for our second. the wider family want it and we don't really mind, so we will do it. it's good to have a special day to celebrate the birth. we will all dress up, as it's a family occasion and there are going to be pictures. i think you've got your judgey pants on a bit sneering at them wanting to look nice - so what if it's not to your taste? lots of people don't know what to wear for church these days. personally, i did check out one service and dress accordingly, but that's just because I hate to stand out. so YABU for the clothes.

but really, isn't your beef that people just come for their big life occasions and not regularly? the more encouraging the church is, the more likely people will get something out of it and come back. god, the way CoE congregations are going, you would think they would be pleased anyone turns up at all.

but talking through the service is extremely, extremely rude. YANBU for the talking.

To me it seems to be coming down to a debate over who has more 'rights'. The right of the family to attend a church service, and be welcomed by regulars, and get through the service in whichever way they choose.

The right of the regular attenders to worship the way they choose, without it being disrupted by people disinterested in the proceedings.

For me, I think I'd go with the OP. Clothing aside (which to me reads as something else to focus on once the OP was already annoyedf at the chatting, rather than as an issue in itself), I just think, as many people have said, that it's rude to turn up somewhere where most people are sitting listening to a speaker - because that's what they've gone there for - and then chat.

I disagree blackeyedsusan - if you go to a play and it turns out not to be your thing, you don't expect it to alter to suit you. Same with a church service. You know what it's about, and you go ready to play along, even if all that requires is sitting quietly for a bit.
Yes, people can worship anywhere, but if someone has set aside two hours on a Sunday, and does so every week because it is important to them to reserve a time to concentrate on it, does that not deserve a bit of respect - why should it be altered to accomodate people who are unlikely to show up again? (I guess I am trying to get at why the service should be altered for one family when presumably there is the rest of the congregation there who like it and attend because of the way it is run. I understand the idea that they may be guests, but are they, in the sense that the congregation invited them? To my way of thinking, you invite yourself along to a church service and then can't really complain if it doesn't suit you.)

FWIW I don't believe in God, but I do believe in respecting the beliefs of others and in observing the conventions of a place that, let's face it, I don't have to go to if I really don't want to.

I think it's disrespectful. Similar thing at my son's baptism - another family having their child baptised at the same time. Only came to one of the 2 rehearsals, where they rolled their eyes and talked over the vicar. Then, at the actual baptism they were dressed up in evening clothes (at 10am) - clearly had no idea what people wear to church - and, which was the MOST annoying thing - completely ignored the vicar's strict instruction that no photos were to be taken inside the church. They had hired a PROFESSIONAL PHOTOGRAPHER who wandered around taking flash photos. And while I was taking my newly-baptised baby up to the altar for communion/blessing, the bloody photographer was taking flash photos of the other couple next to me. I was furious and very upset, actually. I thought it was completely yobbish behaviour.

Wow, at the flash photographer!!! Our church can be quite strict about that at a wedding so no way would it be tolerated at a public act of worship. I'd be annoyed at the talking thing too and I agree that the clothes sound a little inappropriate for church. LRD, does your church not require couples to attend or at least visit church before seeking baptism for their baby?

wolfhound - your newly baptised baby went to receive communion straight after baptism? Are you Orthodox? I thought only they did that.

I am also a non-believer, but like others have to attend churches for weddings and baptisms. I wouldn't dream of chatting during the service, it seems very rude. I do think the clothing is a separate issue, though.

blackeyedsusan, we were welcoming. Loads of people came to talk to them before the service started and everyone was smiling at the baby and cooing over it during the baptism, that part was lovely. But it was also Mothering Sunday and also Holy Communion, and oddly enough we had bits of the service to do with that too. Don't you think it would have been wrong to leave those out too?

They weren't the only new people there, incidentally.

micro, sorry you've had a bad experience, but no, my problem isn't with people not going regularly. I've said already that other baptism parties have come who've not been regulars, but who were respectful and it was lovely.

The thing is most people come and you can just see they are treating the occasion with respect, even if they don't want to come every Sunday, and that's fine. I reckon it's fine too if they think 'well, granny said we must do this so we will, but it's a load of old crap' - just as long as they don't spoil it for everyone else in church.

alex, we do that too. Personally I wouldn't as I wasn't brought up that way, but lots of C of E churches have relaxed rules and allow children to receive communion before confirmation. It seems odd to me as I was brought up to go and get a blessing instead, but it's quite common I think.

A couple of years ago, a couple had their twins christened. They took the piss all through the first half of the service then when the twins had been baptised they walked out instead of sitting down for the rest of the service and didn't even thank the Vicar which I did think was a bit .
The Sunday school kids had made the babies cards aswell which they left on the pews.

My DD and I went to a special reconciliation mass (confession) as part of a confirmation program for the catholic church. The priest had to remind the congregation that we were in church several times as parents and their offspring chatted. My judgy pants were well and truly hoiked up as I watched the confessionees giggling and laughing as they returned to their giggling and laughing parents. The children are there because they want to be and are 13 plus years old, surely a little respect is not too much to ask.

I don't think clothes per se matter at church, unless the regulars would be offended at certain clothes. I wear my usual clothes and have been known to quickly put on a bit of mascara/lippy during the service as long I'm at the back, hidden behind someone in the congregation, so no-one can see. I also don't mind kids running around. But I wouldn't wear strapless/backless/short as that is just inappropriate in that context - I wouldn't wear a ballgown to a cafe either - and it is basic courtesy to respect other people in church, particularly the regulars. I have a pair of ripped jeans that I have stopped wearing to church as some of the older people find them disrespectful - not that they've said but I can see that my jeans have made them feel uncomfortable. That said, it's the heart that God is interested in and it doesn't matter what clothes are on the body as long as they are decent and generally show respect to one and all.

I remember when I started going to church on a more regular basis as an adult, when I was persuaded to send my children along to Sunday School. The format of the service was difficult to understand and my husband and I felt we were the only ones in the place with no idea what was going it. We kept going, partly because I'd made a commitment to send the children to Sunday School, and after a few weeks (which seemed like an age), someone did approach us and explain things to us. We, and our children, now take communion, but I'm always mindful of how uninviting the whole place felt when we first started attending. We now know some other families very well, though the older members of the congregation still make me feel inadequate because we don't go every week. Fortunately, the vicar's nice (a new one since we first started attending), has young children, has encouraged more young families to attend, and I love it when the younger ones are singing and dancing to the hymns in the aisle, much to the annoyance of the older church members. As for church parades, well, that's another story.

Some people just have preconceived ideas about what to wear at church - but then if they'd thought it was important enough to get dressed up for, then why not important enough to shut up for and actually listen? Bizarre!!! They won't come back- don't worry...

Quite simply, if church going is what you do regularly, you forget how inaccessible the whole thing can be to someone who's there for the first time - whether for a baptism or just a regular service.

Yes I agree, it was disrespectful, young children who are not used to the formality of such an event is another thing.

Adults on the other hand should know the social requirements and the importance of the ceremony, if they dont, they should at least have the social grace to be respectful as a visitor to the Church.

YANBU. Kind of.

I went to a christening last year wearing a strapless maxi-dress but had a pashmina around my bare shoulders. Shouldn't have been worried for the rest of the congregation looked like they'd just stepped off the set of The Only Way Is Essex.

marmalade, what I was getting at was that if they'd bothered to come along to a service before the baptism, they'd have realized that it's rude to talk through it and they'd presumably also have noticed that quite a lot of people dress quite conservatively. I don't think I would have noticed the clothes had they been a bit more respectful, but as it was it felt as if it was just another sign they'd decided it didn't matter if they didn't show respect.

Meh.

Some people treat church services like Blackpool piss-ups. At a colleagues wedding two years ago, two girls were swigging booze from a hip flask.

I was mainly irritated because I did not think of it first.

Now booze from a hip-flask at some weddings I've been to could be a good idea!

Thanks everyone for not flaming me btw, that was a nice surprise and I will try to be less judgy in future!

alexpollsmum - sorry, i was probably unclear. i took communion and my newly-baptised baby got a blessing. Not Othodox, just run-of-the-mill CofE. Baby would probably have quite liked a swig of wine, but that was all mine :)

OP I know where you are coming from, we get this a lot

The clothes thing doesn't bother me TBH (even though some ensembles are more suited to a club in Ibiza than a church )

I don't care if they've never been before, if they don't know when to sit/stand/kneel or if the kids are a bit noisy (anyone with kids has been there...) and just hope they have the common sense to take the kid out to calm down if s/he is screaming the place down during the sermon, but if not hey-ho... I love to see new faces in church, everyone is welcome. :)

BUT it really riles me when adults sit chatting loudly- we have even had people answering mobile phones & sitting shouting chatting on them or sending texts back & forth (without the "new text" beep-beep turned off) in the middle of the service before now.

Just a little bit of manners and consideration to those around you is all I ask...

I don't blame you LRD for being a bit narked. You go there every week, and these people by chatting seemed very disrespectful. Like you said, if they had bothered going to the church previously they will have known how to behave.

I really see no point in getting christened or married in a church unless you attend one regularly and have a reasonably strong faith. What's the point?

but this isn't the theatre, this is church, the place where we are supposed to worship the jesus who welcomed prostitutes and and other assorted out casts from the society they were in. You can do mothers day in a way that includes people, especially as they had a baby with them. For christs sake clothes don't matter chewing gum doesn't matter welcoming people does, and that is more than cooing over a baby, it is making them feel comfortable. this isn't an exclusive club where you would expect people to stick to the rules it is church.