AIBU to think WTF is going on?

[ScaredWorriedAndAngry]

We recently realised we may had been burgled my DH noticed weird notches and marks on our front door...so he called the police they came and confirmed that someone had definately been into our house and we suddenly realised why small but valuable items had started going missing over a period of about 5months ..3 phones a hand-bag, my husbands watch I brought him for our anniversary last year and probably other things we have not realised...things you might think you have misplaced or lost..anyway the police officer asked to look upstairs so my husband said ok...when she cam back down the stairs she said 'how many children did you say you had?' my DH answered 2 ..she then said well why is there just 1 bed/mattress upstairs?' my DH explained that we will be buying a futon for them and that we are just in the middle of things.

now for some back-ground...my DDs bless their cotton socks are home-wreckers...they had a lovely IKEA bed but they jumped all over it and smashed the slats beyond repair..they have also dug holes in the walls and pulled off their own room door when they made a 'swing' on the handle amongst other things..unfortunately my DH is not a DIY person a nor am I...we chucked out the bed bits and just had the made up mattress on the floor (which they think is bluddy marvellous and like a 'sleep-over'),we have a new bed that we brought originally when we brought the first bed..but decided not to put it up because they might end up breaking it again, we decided to buy a double futon so they can jump as much as they want till we have set up DD2's room...

We have lived in the house for quite a while but we are really struggling with decorating and many things have gone wrong with the property,mould, bolier broken, man half fitted the kitchen and ran off with the money..plus other personal stuff.. so yes it looks a bit of a state decoration wise and at the moment we just don't have the time money or energy to sort everything out and it's also very cluttered not dirty..just messy...and we also have alot of wine bottles in bags in the kitchen because I'm too lazy to walk round to the bottle bank often enough (more fool me)...so it looks a bit much when I look at it from someone elses perspective..maybe they think we are drunks or something?

Well after they left and I came home my DH mentioned what happened and said he thought she might say something..I said no way because our house is a bit messy and you explained about the matress etc etc...

2 weeks later the police return and we thought it was the discuss the break in..no..it turns out there we some concerns with our children and their living arrangements??, 2 officers from the youth crime reduction team are here?? they ask to come in the house is a bit wild because I'm doing washing..they said they have spoken to the school about us and our children and about the time off they have had etc...and last year my DDs caught quite a few colds ansd stomach bugs and the school policy is you must keep them off for at least 48 hrs so yes their attendance looks dodgy but not more so than other children..they asked us if there was food in the house??...we both work and have decent jobs but bills a mortgage and debts and I don't want to get into anymore debt..

so now a day later they are coming back again with another person...and I'm sure I saw them drive pass the house earlier...we asked for help from the police and now we feel like suspects for something we haven't done...am i overrating/paranoid?..is this normal practice?...am i in some kind of denial?..are we on a list?

I have been trying to hold this all in but I'm tearful/angry and worried and too ashamed to talk to anyone about whats happening...

sorry this is so long..

This post cant be real can it ?

If you lived like the op and had police and social services involvement because of your crap parenting you wouldn't be posing about it on a parenting message board, would you?

I'm amazed at the amout of people on here going 'poor you' op..

Bollocks!

Poor kids.

Sorry IveLivedThatLife - I didn't read your post properly. And tbh last night I began to wonder if you were the OP, which is why I wrote what I did. I was up far too late! You are obviously not, so sorry.

WorzelMummage - We don't know if any posts on this board are genuine. But unless posts are obviously fake, then I treat all posts, particulraly serious ones like this, as genuine.

However, I do know that SS have become involved with families where there are lots of concerns about the state of the house, after the family have invited an authority into the house like the police on an issue not connected with child protection.

I guess for some parents where they do love the children and are not abusing them, but their house is an unacceptable mess for children - they lose sight of how bad their house has got. They maybe see it as just messy.

I remember a few years ago watching an american wife swap episode where one families house was disgusting - rotten food on floor, no surface including the floor clear of stuff, etc. The family had a toddler. If the family had any idea of how bad their house was for a toddler especially, I'm sure they wouldn't have opted to go on national tv.

Surely it's not normal .... for parents to drink so much that there are bags of wine bottles in the kitchen

HOLD ON! We have bags & bags of bottles & cans in our shed to recycle. Here you get 10c per can/more for wine bottles so we save up bags full & cash them in together. This gives us a decent return & we treat the girls.

I don't think bags of bottles = anything untoward! You are making it sound wrong, some how! Especially as the OP said she just hasn't gotten around to taking them to the bottle bank.

I have a friend who lives with rotting food on the floor, huge bits of rubbish like marge tubs on the floor, crap and i mean CRAP everywhere. Filthy loo, upstairs doesn't flush, shower broken.
Both professional teachers!!

I agree that by itself, bags of wine bottles in the kitchen doesn't mean anything. However, it will make SS question whether a parent who says they can't yet afford to buy a bed for their children who are both sleeping on 1 mattress, is spending too much on alcohol and not enough on the children.

Similarly OP is saying the children have caused lots of damage to the house - SS will wonder whether the parents are getting drunk and leaving the children unsupervised for very very long periods.

This doesn't mean that this is true. But the OP needs to know the kind of concerns SS will have and what she needs to do to address them.

Remember SS are visiting the OP after child protection concerns have been raised by the police.

Differentname, in the UK we dont get any money back for recycling. Numerous full carrier bags of bottles in a kitchen (not a shed) that is already a bombsite does not look great. Also, if money is at a stretch, buying wine is not high on the list of priorities.

Lesly, Reality tv is mostly made up. I have a friend (single mum, other country, not US) who went on one of those house cleaning programmes. The production company came in and threw bags of rubbish all over her floors before filming.

I also have 2 friends (one was related to a member of the tv company) who went on a programme about people who cannot cook a healthy diet. They are actually both good cooks in real life.

I also have a friend whose daughter was on one of those brat camp programmes. She is actually a lovely teenager.

QOD Yes people do live like this and some of them are professionals. The stereotype that if people live like this they must be on long term benefits, isn't true. But understandably, a family living like this with younger children, along with other concerns such as not enough beds, poor attendance at school, etc, are going to raise concerns with SS. And the Op needs to respond to their concerns.

Having so many empties in bags in your house that it "breaks your back" to take them to the bottle bank is pretty grim!

I'm amazed too at the pages and pages saying that the OP's housekeeping is disgusting/inadequate. I don't think that for one second. I agree that it could look like that to a police officer who has had some basic training in child protection and been given a checklist of what to look out for - the one bed for two kids is probably on that checklist. But imo the OP has given a very adequate explanation for why that was the case. As for the holes in the wall and the door hanging off - all fine imo on its own, as well as the broken bed slats. The wine bottles piled up in the kitchen - doesn't look great, but why are councils so crap at recycling bottles anyway?

The thing about police officers/social workers etc is that they see so much shit their view can get distorted and they end up seeing 'abuse' in the wardrobe and under the bed - adding two and two and getting five, as someone said. I know of one woman whose children were reported to ss because of 'bruises on the children's legs' - which turned out to be biro ink from the named wellies that had rubbed off THAT DAY. Ridiculous! (and, no, there was nothing else at all that indicated her children were being abused) - a lot of knowledge but not a lot of wisdom. You have been violated twice imo OP (3 times if you include the burglarly in your previous flat, which you say affected you to the point that it no longer felt like 'home' afterwards): someone has been breaking in to your house over a period of time (horrible!), now the authorities that should be investigating the crime to protect you are instead sniffing around your home and parenting. Horrible, horrible, horrible.

No actually, FOUR times - the bristling and imo inappropriate indignation from a majority on your thread. Give it a rest girls, the OP has some priorities that are not the same as yours (thank goodness), recognises that kids can be thugs and has acted accordingly. All fine. I bet her kids are going to be a lot less uptight than some on this thread tbh.

OP, I doubt you're here. You'll have to present a perfect home to the sniffying sw to get ss off your back. I'm so sorry you have been subjected to this and hope it doesn't have too drastic effect on you and your family, though tbh I can't see how it wouldn't. It's become a mad, mad world in a lot of ways - straining at gnats, missing the obvious by a mile. I also hope they get the person who has been violating your home over a period of time.

MillyR oh okay- I was suckered by that programme! It does actually say in American wife sway that some scenes are recreated, so I was kind of warned.

But I do actually know of real cases in the UK where families have invited authorities into their house about something unrelated to child protection where houses have been in a really disgusting state. Which is why I said that I think some families do lose sight of how bad their house has got.

I'd say it's more likely to be working people living in a tip, I know I've thrown packets of tights over my shoulder whilst running out the door to get us all to school/work.

In fact most days I have to try and remove welded on shreddies from the breakfast bar and they've only been left 40 mins whilst I do the school run, you could imgine the damage if left for 8 hours.

As for the holes in the wall and the door hanging off - all fine imo on its own

The wine bottles piled up in the kitchen - doesn't look great, but why are councils so crap at recycling bottles anyway?

The place sound like a shithole, fine if adults want to live like that. Children dont get a choice. Why should the kids have to put up with it, and why are the kids allowed to destroy the house.

Lots of posters, including myself, haven't said that their is abuse or even neglect in the OP's family. However, I have said what the concerns of SS will be, based on wehat the OP has posted, and advised her on what she can do about it.

The OP has asked for advice. I have tried to give it to her.

"I'm amazed too at the pages and pages saying that the OP's housekeeping is disgusting/inadequate. I don't think that for one second. I agree that it could look like that to a police officer who has had some basic training in child protection and been given a checklist of what to look out for"

Hang on a minute.. The Police Officer has actually seen it, you haven't, yet you "don't think for one second" that she is living in squalor ?

How can you possibly even have an opinion ?

Do you know the OP ?

Have you been to their house ?

Because the Op is on Mumsnet, which makes her a Mumsnetter and it's always Us against Them isn't it? So the police officer must be wrong. I wonder if they'll be talking to the school to ask their opinion of the children's welfare.

I posted below to say why SS will have concerns about the situation the OP posted on. I am not saying that ANY of SS's concerns are necessarily justified. But these will be their concerns and they will have to investigate them.

The concerns are not about decoration, or ordinary mess or even about one of the concerns below. For example, lots of empty wine bottles in the kitchen would not be enough on its own to trigger concern. It is when you look at the range of concerns they will have, that hopefully you can understand why SS are visiting.

If you had an SN child causing damage the OP would have told the police this and the school would have confirmed it.

They will not be bothered about ordinary mess. There concerns will be:

1. Only 1 mattress. You say they are sharing and only on a temporary basis. But in families where children are being abused it is not uncommon for 1 child to be treated badly and others treated well. They will be concerned that second child will be sleeping somewhere inappropriate such as the bat or, on the floor. You obviously have a computer, why not use freecycle to get a second bed?

1. Lots of empty wine bottles, but parents say they can't afford a new bed. Concern will be whether you are very heavy drinkers and thus there is not enough money left over for you to provide the basics for your children.

1. Holes in wall. Concerns will be that this was done by an aggressive adult. Either you, your OH or a visitor. For an adult to be this aggressive, there will be concerns about whether there is DV or physical abuse of the children.

1. Food in cupboards. In families with severe neglect there is often no food in the house that could make a recognisable meal. Either literally nothing or a few odd things such as a jar of honey and cornflour. They are not looking for ultra healthy things. Just food that could make a recognisable meal e.g. fish finger, bread, baked beans, etc. If there is no food their concern will be that either the children are not being regularly fed or that they are regularly being fed on takeaways e.g. kebab for tea and leftovers for breakfast. Nobody cares about occasional takeaways e.g. once a week, but not as their usual food. Other concern will be if only food in house is sweets and crisps.

1. Lots of mess. I agree with the ex police officer that your house must be in a really bad mess for the police to notice and take action. So basics with clearing mess are:

a. Are the stairs free of clutter so that you can walk up and down safely. b. Are there clean clothes for the children in wardrobe/chest of drawers - not just all the clothes strewn around the floor in the house and maybe mixed inw ith discarded food. c. Does the childrens mattress/beds have reasonably clean sheets and enough blankets/duvet. d. Is there a working cooker and some preparation surface for meals. e. Is there rubbish mixed in with mess on floor e.g. things that should be in a kitchen bin, discarded bits of rotten food, etc on the floor. f. Is the bath/shower clear of clutter and reasonably clean. If you have clothes/toys and other stuff stacked up in bath/shower they will be concerned that the children aren't being washed often enough. g. Is the toilet reasonably clean e.g. no poo on toilet seat. h. Is there human/animal poo on floor/furniture i. You say the boiler isn't working, so SS will be concerned about how the children are being kept clean e.g. is there an electric shower?

1. When your children are too ill to go to school you need to be telling the school about this first thing in the morning (you may already do). If you ring in later e.g. 10/11am, the concern will be that the children didn't make it to school because you have been heavily drinking and have only just woken up or you have a bad hangover.

1. They will be concerned if the parents are saying that their kids are boisterous enough to cause damage in the house, but the kids are well behaved at school. The concern will be whether the children are being properly supervised, or whether they are being left say for several days by themselves and cause damage out of boredom/lack of supervision.

The other thing to remember is that abusive parents lie to SS and others such as police. So SS and others are taught to not just believe what parents tell them, but to look at the facts. So for example, the bed may have only been in the garden for 2 weeks, but they won't automatically believe this.

This is why you have to show SS that things are changing/improving. Please take this seriously. For furniture/beds/kitchen units
try freecycle on the net - where people locally give away unwanted things

And I really don't think we would be helping the OP if we just say I'm sure your house is fine and the police are over reacting.

springdaffs Police officers do see 'so much shit' that the problem is that usually they become desensitised to it. The problem has bee that Police Officers/social workers/ HV do become desentisied bec ause 'this how these people live' that it is allowed to continue.sThe OPs house sounds pretty bad for SS to have taken this so seriously. There are obviously concerns at school too to warrant another visit.

What will the teachers know anyway, Pah, they only look after the kids for 6 hours a day, who would trust what they they think...

I've read a couple of paragraphs scaredworriedandangry has written, I can vouch for her most excellent parenting skills.

But you know, I have been on this thread since the beginning and it feels like we are just going to go through a return of previous pages i.e. nothing wrong with her house, she just has kids followed by you must be joking it sounds disgusting.

OP if you are still reading I hope you do manage to sort thingsd out and satisfy SS.

Every time I see this thread in Active Convos I keep hoping, for the childrens sake, that the OP has come back to give some positive news.

Unfortunately, I also keep thinking back to when I worked for SS and had frequent dealings with the police -IME it took a lot to shock a police officer.

I'm not saying that this is the case here but I can't help but wonder what the true situation is -an over-reaction by the police or is the situation in the home really bad?

Whilst I do take on board the reasons that have been mentioned as to why this might appear to raise CP issues, I find it interesting how many on this thread have condemned the OP's house as a shithole/disgusting etc largely because there are holes in the wall and doors missing.

I really do wonder what those posters would make of my house now (none of the upstairs rooms have doors, or properly painted walls, and haven't for years) let alone what it was like a few years ago when it was much worse.

However I don't have any wine bottles lying around (we get our glass recycling collected in this area) so that's probably alright then.....

I would like some of the 'liberal caring' posters to ask themselves one simple question, would you want YOUR DCs to spend ONE NIGHT in that shithole being looked after by the OP?

Over my dead body would my bairns set down in that place. It is bloody shameful loving DCs is not just something you feel its something you DO. Its not just cuddling them its keeping them clean. properly fed and comfortable in a safe clean enviroment and if you don't want to be arsed with that part of being a Mam don't have them.

Hatesponge I agree with previous posters that it takes a lot to shock a police officer. So I tend to think the house must be in a realy really bad state. However if the police are over reacting, SS would have come yesterday, said everything is okay and left.

The OP hasn't come back on to say this. So perhaps SS have visited and the police were right about how bad it is.

But I do agree that its not helpful to just insult the OP. But she does need to address any concerns SS raise with her. IME it is when parents refuse to acknowledge concerns SS raise and refuse to do anything about them that further action such as prosecution can happen.