in wondering , when using discipline

[creaseistheword]

How you get a child to go to their room if they refuse and you cant physically move them?

fabbychic I am a working mum and generally there is only an hour between when I pick him up from after school care and bedtime. I dont think its good for him to be playing ds games just before bed. I also dont allow tv before school. I just generally think tv pre school and games consoles are detrimental in the school week.

Godsake Lequeen, I'm shit scared of you and would always do as I'm told. I just pissed myself laughing at your fearsome description. My DS used to hit me all the time, he's a bit older now (8) and much more mature and I don't think he would ever do it again. He has a strop from time to time, but not much more than that. He's generally quite respectful now. I wouldn't say for one minute it's too late. OP maybe you just need a different approach. I realised that being authorative with my DS didn't work. He works much better having a reasonably grown up discussion and removing the things that he likes, e.g. PSP or tv (he hates that), he also responds better to my disappointment rather than my wrath (even though he says I'm scary). Good luck.

LeQueens description is pretty much what i would do too.

I have mastered the wide eyed, stern yet calm tone and the words "WHAT did you just do" "what exactly do you think you are doing"

my children instantly stop doing whatever they were doing and just freeze.
Yes maybe a little bit of that is fear, but i don't smack.
I don't think i have ever threatened to unless in jest.

I often find that my two would rather take themselves to their room than stay in one with me in full on scarey mum mode.

and yes Abenstille's sugestion is excellent. I too allow the DC to help chose their own pre agreed punishments for things. when something becomes an issue we will discuss it and i ask them what they think the punishment should be if they do it again.

I like the double or half idea too.

'think abenstille has great advice in agreeing sanctions with your ds - I use this at school (I am a teacher). I ask them what they think a suitable punishment is and tell them if it is too much I will halve it, but if too little I will double it - they usually come up with something suitable and can't really argue with it as they choose the punishment!!

That is wrong on so many levels I really don't know where to start

really? why's that then?

Princessparty, I'd love to know your thoughts - I happen to think negotiating a punishment is great and works really well with my DS - I'm open to your wisdom, I definitely don't want to be making trouble for myself with my DS.

Yep, I would go with LeQueens post as well.

And agree with princessparty.

Letting a DC suggest what happens to them when they're being punished so you go along with or amend what they say should happen?

It hardly puts you in a position of authority does it?

LeQueen Tue 29-Mar-11 20:16:26
"WTF? He hit you???

I don't have any advice for this one. I think if they feel they can hit you (at any age) then you're trying to shut the stable door after the horse has long bolted..."

I think this may be a little over-pessimistic. Both my brother and my dd did still go into complete tantrum mood at rare intervals at that age- thrashing and flailing and kicking and trying to bite. Neither of them had known SN, though both had perhaps had unusual levels of stress in an earlier part of their lives, both had parents (if I may say so) with natural authority which worked at all normal times, both were normally obedient, just not when they were having a bad day. I used to have to pin dd down, and I can remember my dad (a most firm and respect-inducing man) having to do the same with my brother. But not with any of his other three children, and I've never had to do it with ds either.

In the event, the horse had not bolted. My brother grew up into a highly civilised adult, who still has great respect for his parents, and who has never been in trouble with anybody else, a most gentle and loving husband and father. Dd at 14 is a well behaved teenager who again seems to have a great respect for our opinions, and is just generally mature and easy to get on with, much appreciated by her teachers.

What we did, my parents and I, was just carry on enforcing the same message- no I won't let you hit me, no I won't let you hurt me- if necessary whilst restraining child, never giving in for fear of provoking a tantrum, never showing fear, but also never letting the sun go down on our wrath- in other words, no extended punishments. We both wanted to convey the message that this was something out-of-the-ordinary, something that we knew the child would be remorseful about once he had come to himself again, that wouldn't need reinforcing in any other way. It worked for us, anyway.

I, like you, could never imagine a scenario where I could have hit my parents, they were just too awesome. But my brother did, and yet he had the same respect for them that I did. So it must have been something about us, rather than about our parents- they were the same parents.

DS15 is 5'6 and 12 stone. He is very good at back chat and muttering, and will occasionally push or shove me. HOWEVER, When I raise my voice, he quakes in his boots. Im loud and more than a little sweary, but in general, pretty harmless. Although I am quite happy to smack when needed, I have rarely needed to. He knows that when I really shout, he is in deep shit!

Cory - can I say how helpful your post is. having one child with SN and another who stuggles for lots of reasons with her temper and I think poss hyperactivity we don't all live in a world of naturally compliant children.

Glad it helped, Lunar.

And I have to say I am glad noone told my parents or me to give up at 7 because it was already too late. I do believe it was the years after 7, those years of patience and worry and trying again, that did the trick.

btw when I said, neither dd or db had SN, I meant behavioural SN- dd is physically disabled, which did affect her temper badly. Still does, but she is too old to turn on other people. In fact, both my db and dd stopped more or less when they had got to an age where they realised they could seriously hurt someone, perhaps even kill them- that seems to have acted as a restraint.

ime lots of children are more like teenagers when they are in primary school than when they are teenagers; ds is just growing out of his defiant rebellious phase now and he'll be 11 in May

dd was totally into backchat when she was at preschool, not just tantrums, but snooty how-do-you-know-backchat. She doesn't do that now she's in secondary; I think she finds it sounds a bit immature and silly...

I was also very difficult, defiant, argumentative as a young child, but an easy-going teenager (might as well humour them, I'll be moving from home soon, why not make them happy).

So I'm not sure you have to get worse as you grow older; to me it was so much easier behaving nicely as a teen when I had so much more control and was virtually treated like an adult anyway.

I was also very good at challenging teenagers when working as a supply teacher, LeQueen. But would still maintain that this is not quite the same as having a problem child of your own. My dad was also a supremely efficient teacher. But his own son had problems that no teacher ever got to see.

If there is someone he really respects and loves, someone who thinks he can do no wrong for example a grandparent, then maybe threatening to tell them how naughty he has been would work?

My mum used to do this to me and I couldn't bear the thought of my grandad finding out if I'd been naughty so it would quickly make me see sense as a child. She also used to do it with my headteacher, which made me embarrassed more than anything, but still worked nonetheless.

Because they have to learn that certain behaviour is not tolerated, surely threatening them and allowing them to change their behaviour/say sorry etc is better than just swinging in with a punishment and not giving them a chance to redeem themselves?

I don't think professional advice is needed here either - a different approach, yes, which is exactly what the OP has asked for, and hopefully got some good ideas from the discussion on this thread.

I'm sure I remember reading something recently about 7 being a difficult year, I'll see if I can find it.

Personally, I always felt I should do my own disciplining, not set beloved relatives up as bugbears. And would be rather annoyed if other relatives used my name to discipline their children.

Fair enough, but it worked on me :o I knew my grandad would never tell me off but it was the thought of his dissapointment that made me behave.

Knowing how long it takes to get a referral for professional help and how difficult it is, I would not ask for it for the first instance of a 7yo hitting me, only if it was a recurring problem and I was absolutely positive that I couldn't deal with it on my own.