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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To pause in graveyard and weep at this

207 replies

BellaMagnificat · 25/03/2011 23:44

Saddest I saw was this (witholding the family name)

In loving memory

Harold 1893-1896

Samuel 1904-1905

Wilfred 1897-1916 Killed in action

Ethel 1891-1917

Mabel 1893-1923

Nora 1900-1929

How utterly cruel. How did the families ever get past it?

OP posts:
JaneS · 27/03/2011 10:56

need, he also wrote a Catholic poem when he was younger for his baby daughter Mary, who died. Then changed his faith and wrote this. I know people can change faith genuinely and maybe he didn't think the distinction was important, but I just find this poem so sad because I can't see that he really does believe it's better ... he just wants to believe that. That's why it's worth remembering.

expatinscotland · 27/03/2011 10:57

Victor Hugo was of course born in a time when it was common for your children to die before you.

Indeed, his first child, Leopold, died in infancy and the next, a daughter, was called Leopoldine.

She drowned with her husband in a boating accident when she was a young woman, and Hugo's grief was so profound that he, one of the most prolific published writers of his time, did not publish again for years, although he was writing still.

So again, just because it was common doesn't mean the loss was felt less keenly.

Of the many things he wrote for Leopoldine was this:

Demain, dès l'aube

Demain, dès l'aube, à l'heure où blanchit la campagne,
Je partirai. Vois-tu, je sais que tu m'attends.
J'irai par la forêt, j'irai par la montagne.
Je ne puis demeurer loin de toi plus longtemps.
Je marcherai les yeux fixés sur mes pensées,
Sans rien voir au dehors, sans entendre aucun bruit,
Seul, inconnu, le dos courbé, les mains croisées,
Triste, et le jour pour moi sera comme la nuit.
Je ne regarderai ni l'or du soir qui tombe,
Ni les voiles au loin descendant vers Harfleur,
Et quand j'arriverai, je mettrai sur ta tombe
Un bouquet de houx vert et de bruyère en fleur.

Tomorrow, beginning at dawn, at the time when the countryside pales,
I will leave. You see, I know that you are waiting for me.
I will go through the forest, I will go through the mountain.
I cannot remain far from you any longer.
I will walk with my eyes fixed on my thoughts,
seeing nothing else, hearing no noise,
alone, unknown, my back hunched over, my hands crossed,
sad, and the day for me will be like night.
I will not see the gold of the evening falling,
nor the sails in the distance going down toward Harfleur,
and when I arrive, I will lay on your tomb
a bouquet of green holly and of heather in bloom.

5Foot5 · 27/03/2011 11:08

I know what you mean. In the village I grew up in there was one old gravestone - about 1890s I think - which showed that one particualr family lost three children in about four years. That always brought a lump to my throat.

Then recently we were looking at gravestones in a local churchayard (as a by-product of another hobby, we were searching for "clues") and DD and I came across a relatively recent little grave that was for a baby who was only a week old when she died. That brought tears to my eyes.

JaneS · 27/03/2011 11:44

expat, that is a lovely poem, thanks for posting it.

ApocalypseCheeseToastie · 27/03/2011 11:58

Oh I often have a blub when I visit the cemetary.

I also cried for the little boy my Grandma lost, I didn't hear about him until after she'd died when I found a photo of a little boy who looked like a little angel with blonde curls and asked who he was.

Little Frankie was my youngest uncle, he was born with numerous problems (couldn't walk, talk etc) but he was kept at home, and they loved him dearly. Grandpa even made him a little carraige so he could be involved with the other children, who would race him up and down the front street, the wind on his face made him squeal and laugh.

He died when he was four, Grandma was giving him a bath and he just stopped breathing, Mother said she'd just got home from the cinema and she could hear her shouting 'he's not breathing, help me. I don't know what to do' She was never the same after that.

Very sad, even sdder that there has been a child death in each generation of our family, Grandmas twin as a baby, little Frankie, my Mother lost a boy at 8 months pregnant, my cousin aged 13. So far, with my own lot (touch wood) there haven't been any, bar 2 miscarraiges.

But yes, it makes me sad. And I often visit the little boys plot buried with his mum and dad, no headstone which I intend to rectify one day.

Funny thing is, when dd was younger, she didn't look like any of us (still doesn't) which puzzled us all greatly.... until Mother dug out the photo of little Frankie and we were met with dds spitting image !!

Ormirian · 27/03/2011 12:01

Mum lost several babies in the early stages of pregnancy. But she also lost twin boys at a few hours old. They were called Christopher and Timothy. I feel very strange about it all - two big brothers I never knew. She has never forgotten them and never will. If someone saw their little graves I hope they would feel moved and perhaps weep a little.

DandyDan · 27/03/2011 13:08

Expat, that's one of my top poems. I remember being told that although he was initially able to visit Leopoldine's grave, Hugo was unable to do so for many years when he was in exile in the Channel Islands.

I find it hard to like any of the several translations I have seen though. It's more eloquent in the original.

valiumredhead · 27/03/2011 13:28

I wouldn't cry. I would have a fleeting moment of sadness, well, tbh not even sadness, more a moment of "God, how awful.'

BellaMagnificat · 27/03/2011 19:05

For those who wonder why I might have memorised - I was up there doing some research on a social history project, and because of my strong reaction, noted the dates down with everything else.

I had not read that Victor Hugo before, expat - very moving and more lyrical in the original.

OP posts:
harecare · 27/03/2011 19:59

It was probably just me wondering. That makes sense.

ShinyMoonInAPurpleSky · 27/03/2011 20:03

My great grandmother had 13 children in the early 1900's. 2 of her children died, a little girl aged 3 - my nan said she was very highly strung and her description of how her little sister acted makes me think she maybe had Autism. One day she had a fit and died.

The other child was a little boy aged 9, he was the youngest of the 4 boys and always sickly and weak. My nan said he had been running a fever and collapsed at church. He hit his head on the pew. She said that the doctors thought it was meningitis, I don't know if the doctors actually knew this at the time or if it's something the family discovered later.

When my great grandmother died when she was nearly 100 years old her headstone had a message on it which read something along the lines of - "X was a loving mother to 11 children but now she has gone to look after Billy and Mary who have been waiting for their mummy a long time" :(

Because my nan has always been old for as long as I knew her and I never knew my g-grandmother it never really sunk in that they had lives before I heard this story but because of it I completely understand how you feel op.

Emmanana · 27/03/2011 20:05

I like to sit on a bench in a cemetary, or wander round, as I find them such peaceful places to contemplate. When I see the graves of whole families who died relatively close together it does make me wonder at how lucky we are today with modern medicine , and how diseases can now be prevented with innoculations and cured.
However, one grave that did make me cry was in New Zealand
It marks the resting place of a worker who had gone to the area to find work in the mid 1800's, and was found at the side of the road being guarded by his dog, by a co-worker. No one knew where he came from, and so no one could be informed of his death. The man who found him errected the gravestone for him, and it saddens me to think who may have been waiting for him; A Mum, a sweetheart, a wife, children. They would have gone to their graves never knowing what happened and maybe every day waiting for him to return. I think his co-worker was spot on. At sometime in our lives, we are all somebodies Darling.

Emmanana · 27/03/2011 20:32

I cried unashamedly when we visited the site of the former POW camps, and Forces burial grounds in Kanchanaburi, Thailand, near the River Kwai.
If anyone has a relative buried there, then please be assured that their final resting place is extremely well cared for, by the Thai people. The headstones that have been errected by the Foreign War Graves Comission and the granite Roll Calls are in pristine condition. We laid some flowers at the main memorial, and also at a few of the few of the graves that had the simple inscription "An un-named Soldier, known only unto God". I didn't know them, but my tears were for someone who was willing to give their life, and as a result We live freely today. A bucket full of tears could not repay that sacrifice....

EdgarAleNPie · 27/03/2011 20:39

lots of good thoughts on this thread.

my mother cried visiting the caves at Signac - with hand paintings from 20000bc. The people who made those marks lived, had children and died countless generations before, but their memory still had the power to move. I find it hard to remain unmoved watching programes about Pompeii, or visiting a war cemetary in Thailand (a mix of very young men and those bordering on midle-age, they hadn't expected to fight), the Holocaust is something i find very difficult to think about (paricularly since motherhood) - the fear those mothers and fathers must have felt for their children, the powerlessness.

We went to two graveyards to choose a spot for DS - and chose a place where he can have a cherry tree (big silly pink flowers, not tasteful) over his ashes so that he can grow and blossom - or a little part of him can. whilst i was there i noticed a huge Gothicy gravestone for a couple and their 16-week old baby. I was thankful briefly my child had made it to two. Loss is not less because of age or number of children - the grief of those parentswas hammered out in stone to give permanence to the mayfly-like existence of their child.

there were less thought out tributes, such as an oak for a one year old in a small graveyard (now a large twenty-year old tree - potential full growth in excess of 100m!)

zeno don't know what to put on the marker. i quite like 'And i see a rainbow, and i ask to be let in' (from Jim Densmore, brother to John Desmore of The Doors) but am leaning to just name and dates and let that speak for itself. Maybe a picture of a ball.

being unmoved by these things - that's up to you. i think it can be a sign that you are also closed to happiness - if another persons sadness is nothing to you, are you moved by their smiles? It's not rational to pretend that as a human being, a social animal, you can't be touched by the plight of your fellow human.

Georgimama · 27/03/2011 20:46

Edgar, was thinking about you today, hope you and your husband and daughter are, well, not OK, obviously you're not OK, but holding on.

lifechanger · 27/03/2011 20:49

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Flowerpotmummy · 27/03/2011 20:49

This reply has been deleted

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sweetgilly · 27/03/2011 20:51

ChippingInMistressSteamMop

Ah ha. I now see how it works. Howabout I apologise, then go into great detail about how difficult it is for me to show emotion, then you can all say "its ok sweetgilly, its awfully nice and big of you to apologise", then we can all go back to tea and group hugs.

bringinghomethebacon · 27/03/2011 20:54

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Maud2011 · 27/03/2011 20:57

This is a great thread and thank you for posting the poems, Expat and Need. I hadn't read either before and they are so moving.

Cemeteries are lovely places. Yes, full of sadness but often beautiful too. Full of love - and life.

I am a volunteer worker in a Victorian cemetery close to where I live. I help look after visitors and do a bit of landscape work. I am also researching lives of some of the people interred there, which is absolutely fascinating. There is such a wealth of personal and social history to be discovered.

Emmanana · 27/03/2011 20:59

My best friends brother died when we were at school, from leukaemia, and when he was buried, they played this song at his funeral.
His headstone has the inscription

Nicholas ----
1964 - 1983

'Forever Always Young'

after the words in the song:

And he's one more arrow flying through the air
One more arrow landing in a shady spot somewhere
Where the days and nights blend into one
And he can always feel the sun
Through the soft brown earth that holds him
Forever always young
He could have been a boxer
But the fight game seemed so dirty
We argued once he knocked me down
And he cried when he thought he'd hurt me
Strictly from the old school
He was quiet about his pain
And if one in ten could be that brave
I would never hate again
One more arrow
One more arrow
One more arrow
Forever always young

IngridBergmann · 27/03/2011 21:03

Sorry, Edgar x

working9while5 · 27/03/2011 21:06

Wordsworth also wrote a sonnet capturing his devastation at the death of his three year old girl:

Surprised by joy - impatient as the wind

Surprised by joy ? impatient as the wind
I turned to share the transport ? Oh! With whom
But thee, long buried in the silent tomb,
That spot which no vicissitude can find?
Love, faithful love, recalled thee to my mind ?
But how could I forget thee? - Through what power,
Even for the least division of an hour,
Have I been so beguiled as to be blind
To my most grievous loss? ? That thought's return
Was the worse pang that sorrow ever bore,
Save one, one only, when I stood forlorn,
Knowing my heart's best treasure was no more;
That neither present time nor years unborn
Could to my sight that heavenly face restore.

Of course people felt many years ago. Why would having a large family make the loss of one child an irrelevance? That is a weird thing to think indeed!

Deemented, that inscription is so poignant. So sorry for your loss and those of the others on this thread who have buried their children: MrsPresley and Zeno, hope I didn't miss any.

CheerfulYank · 27/03/2011 21:07

Edgar when the last of the snow melts we plan to plant an IPOAT tree for your little man here...fir trees grow well and look lovely in the winter.

Thinking of you xx

working9while5 · 27/03/2011 21:07

Oh Edgar, I am so, so sorry for your so recent loss too..I missed that your post was from you.