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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

God-mother, but without the God bit?

114 replies

Thistledew · 25/03/2011 16:58

My friend has invited me to be a God-mother to her child. I am honoured that she asked, and happy to take on a role in her child's life, but the only problem is that I am not a Christian. I have my own spiritual views, but they do not accord with anything that is prescribed in any religious text.

I assume that she is going to have a Christening for her child. Is there any way I can promise to support and guide the child without having to do so in the Christian faith? (I am happy to teach my views on religion, but I doubt it would be in a way that the Church would be entirely pleased with )

Also, for those of you who are or have god-parents, what do you expect of them?

OP posts:

maxpower · 25/03/2011 21:30

OP I became a godparent last year but follow no formal religion (I'm not Christened myself). I initially had reservations as you do, but I was entirely reasssured by the reverend who explained that basically being a godparent had nothing to do with my beliefs. The point is that I was making promises on the child's behalf becasue he's too young to make them himself and that in the event of his parent's deaths, I would ensure he completed his entry to the church with his confirmation when he was older. I felt that I would be able to do that without any hypocrisy.

abbierhodes · 25/03/2011 21:34

Our priest was fine with the godparents not being Christian as long as they would be 'supportive'. That bit is open to interpretation I think. One Godparent in particular will definitely be supportive if my children want to 'explore' different spiritual beliefs when they're older...in a way that my personal beliefs might prevent me from doing. I think that's quite important too. They all love our kids, and us, and are there to support us as parents if and when we ask for it. I think this is they key really. Most churches are more flexible nowadays due to the mixed society we live in...it simply isn't the case anymore that all Christians have Christian friends.

kat2504 · 25/03/2011 21:35

I think that is fair enough to be honest. I still would not be able to promise that. And i would not feel happy about being silent when I was supposed to be repeating things. It is for each person to decide themselves.
I am glad the church has a more up to date view and includes more people. I can't help thinking this devalues the GODparent bit insofar as the church itself is concerned, but it does make it accessible to more people which is good. It helps religious people with atheist best friends such as a poster above for example.
I can't help feeling that it is a bit hypocritical. If you aren't bothered about bringing the child up as a christian then don't bother with the baptism.

abbierhodes · 25/03/2011 21:39

Kat, I agree with you on most of this I think, albeit from very different viewpoints, but I still think you're missing the point with this: 'If you aren't bothered about bringing the child up as a christian then don't bother with the baptism.' As parents, we are bringing our children up as Christians. The Godparents do not bring them up. They simply support.

kat2504 · 25/03/2011 21:48

Yes but if they are atheists they can't support with the God bit. They can support with everything else but the baptism is a ceremony of joining the christian church. They are supposed to promise to bring them up in that church and support them in becoming christians. Or at least that is the original idea. It seems the church have broadened their views on that recently however. I fail to see how an atheist is going to support the christian indoctrination/upbringing of a child. No matter how excellent and supportive they may be in every other respect in the child's life.

I do appreciate your argument but would no more stand as a god parent in a christian baptism than I would in a Muslim or Jewish ceremony. Because I don't believe in those religions either. It would in no way depreciate my efforts to be involved in the childs life or upbringing if I was a close enough friend. But it is a religious ceremony in a church with a priest.

As far as I can see at least 80 percent of people who have children baptised have little intention of bringing them up as christians anyway so I think the whole god-parent argument is slightly flawed as in my opinion the church ought to concentrate on the parents first.

abbierhodes · 25/03/2011 22:05

I do respect your position that you could never be a Godparent. I'm just very glad my friends don't feel the same way!

I was engaged before I met my current DH, and my ex was a very strong atheist. We were planning a civil wedding, and had agreed that we wouldn't baptise our children if we had any as we both felt strongly about not using the church as a 'venue' if we weren't (as a family) going to follow the religion. As a catholic and an atheist, this was one thing we absoltutely agreed on. (Possibly the only thing, hence him being my ex )

moondog · 25/03/2011 22:07

People who choose 'Godparents' do so with an unreal sense of smugness and an assumption that other people find their brats as fascinating as they do.
They don't.
Live with it.

abbierhodes · 25/03/2011 22:11

People who write random unrelated comments at the end of a thread do so with an unreal sense of smugness and an assumption that other people find their ramblings as fascinating as they do.
They don't.
Fuck off.

pigletmania · 25/03/2011 22:12

A godparent is to guide the child through the Christian faith, this would be very hard to do if you are not a Christian tbh, and I would refuse as it goes against your beliefs. You need to be honsest with her about this so she can choose someone more appropriate to be Godparent.

moondog · 25/03/2011 22:13

It's a difficult fact to face as you demonstrate.

kat2504 · 25/03/2011 22:13

So, as a Catholic, it wouldn't have bothered you not bringing your kids up as non-christians? Or would you just not have had them baptised and given them the choice when old enough?
I had wondered how it worked when only one parent was religious. Just assumed that only that parent would make the baptism promises and the other just stand there perhaps?

pigletmania · 25/03/2011 22:14

You cannot possibly be a Godparent without the God bit

abbierhodes · 25/03/2011 22:17

It would have bothered me, yes. But my ex was quite controlling, so he could the shots. I wouldn't have had them baptised if he wasn't going to 'allow' them to follow the faith as they got older, which he said he wouldn't. Luckily, that all remained hypothetical as my current DH has the same beliefs as me...and more importantly, is open to discussion about these things!

kat2504 · 25/03/2011 22:18

And someone who is not going to guide the child through the faith would be correctly referred to as a "family friend". You don't need a ceremony or a god to be a good and lifelong and loyal friend to that child and their parents.

Original poster

Thistledew · 25/03/2011 22:19

Thanks for all the messages. It has given me much to think about. I am going to have to have a frank conversation with my friend and tell her that I cannot stand up in a church and make any religious promises.

I do not think that she is being hypocritical in asking me. She is not a particularly devout Christian but would probably characterise herself as being of the faith. She also lives in a small community where church life is as much about community life as it is religion, so it is important to her for that reason.

I suppose that it will be up to her and her vicar whether or not I can be part of the ceremony.

I do also find it a bit daunting to take on that (non-religious) role in a child's life- but that is perhaps a whole other thread.

OP posts:

kat2504 · 25/03/2011 22:22

I once had a potentially serious relationship with a church of england priest. I am glad I did not have all these dilemmas to deal with after all. As an atheist with a priest I think I would have had to give a lot of ground.I guess he would have been obliged to baptise his kids/have a religious marriage and I did not consider those issues at the time. However he was a d-head anyway and am more glad that I did not marry him and have kids with him than any stuff relating to what we would have done about baptisms!

abbierhodes · 25/03/2011 22:26

Quite. The disagreement over religion was the least of my worries with my ex too!

I think as long as the parents, the 'god'parents and the priest/vicar are all in agreement (and determined to do their best for the child) it doesn't matter what others think. Every family is different.

kat2504 · 25/03/2011 22:30

Yes. although we disagree with the baptism issue (will always think it is hypocritical for atheists to participate in religious ceremonies) we can agree that it is up to the individuals to do what suits them best.

feynman · 26/03/2011 23:35

I would question whether you 'need' to be a christian to support a child growing up with christian views. Just because you don't personally believe, doesn't mean you can't be supportive of christian beliefs.

hairylights · 26/03/2011 23:41

I am am "odd"parent to my neice :)

startail · 26/03/2011 23:54

My un-christened DD's have honorary God parents (Christian and Jewish). The girls are very fond of them and learn spiritual lessons from them. (I have certainly learnt more from the Jewish friend than I ever did in RE)
I am honorary god mother to the Christian friends DC. She asked both me and DH, but in all conscience only DH could make the formal promises in church.

pingu2209 · 28/03/2011 19:15

It may not be uncommon for people to use churches for weddings and funerals but baptisms are deemed the most important ceremony in church. It is for this reason you pay for weddings and funerals but there is not a fee to get baptised.

The ceremony is cleansing the child of 'original sin' and for the parents, with the support of god parents, promising to raise the child as a Christian. Whilst this promise is to people watching the ceremony, more importantly you are making the promise to God.

Many churches now have 'naming ceremonys' rather than baptisms / christenings. That maybe more appropriate. This way the family gets the pomp and ceremony with a party after but not making promises to God.

Being a god parent is to promise to raise the child according to Christian principles. Some people get confused with god parents and guardians. Guardians are the people your child will go to if both parents die.

When I had my 3 baptised I invited many friends to the service and meal after. Some friends said that they were not Christians so I asked them to keep quiet in the parts of the ceremony where the attendees are asked to say 'I promise'.

Personally I would google for the wording of the ceremony to decide if this is something you are prepared to do.

edam · 28/03/2011 19:21

'Godmother' is sometimes the easiest way to describe a very important relationship with someone who is not technically your Godparent.

I have one of those. Lost touch with my 'real' Godparents by the time I was 12 or something. Instead I have been lucky enough to know this amazing lady who has been a huge influence on my life. Just so happens she met my parents when I was three and had already been Christened.

minipie · 28/03/2011 19:28

My view is it would depend on exactly what I was required to say.

If it involved promising to teach the child to be Christian (or anything similar), I don't think I could do it. I would be making a promise I knew I wouldn't keep.

If it involved promising to support the child and his parents "before God" that's ok. To my mind the words "before God" are just extra words - I am promising to support the child, if God happens to exist then it's before God, if not then it's not, either way it's a promise I can keep.

Bit legalistic I know.

pollyblue · 28/03/2011 19:45

I'm 'Godmother' to my friends dd and have no faith at all. Did point that out to her when she asked! But she said for them it was more about us, as their close friends, providing care, love and support to their dd, and just making a public pledge to do so.

FWIW, they are Baptist, and their service is slightly less Godly than a C of E christening . I wasn't asked to make any promises to do with faith, just that I would offer support throughout the lo's life.

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