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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think that Christians do not want equal treatment, they want their views to be given a privileged in public life.

261 replies

seeker · 23/03/2011 08:42

and that the discrimination that some Christians claim they are suggering is actually just the withdrawing of that privileged position, and the levelling of the playing fiels for people of faith and people without faith.

OP posts:
Hammy02 · 23/03/2011 08:44

I couldn't disagree more. How is it OK for someone to be allowed to wear a headscarf at work but not a crucifix as per the British Airways debate? I am an athiest but I can see that Christians have less rights than other religions as people are afraid to come across as intolerant.

zikes · 23/03/2011 08:49

Isn't the headscarf demanded by the Muslim faith, while the crucifix is often worn as jewellery and is not demanded by the Christian religion?

Seems quite abig difference to me.

Chil1234 · 23/03/2011 08:49

It's not even that simple. Christians (or to be more accurate, C of E) didn't mind the principle that the law supercedes religious belief because the law and C of E rules were pretty much identical for centuries. It was OK for other denominations and faiths to be kept down... no problem with that at all! Now that laws have progressed away from certain christian fundamentals (things like homosexuality, for example) this doesn't suit them at all.

GiddyPickle · 23/03/2011 08:50

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Chil1234 · 23/03/2011 08:59

"worry if it's festivals or symbols offend other people "

You're just falling victim to the Daily Mail-style urban myths with that one.

NestaFiesta · 23/03/2011 09:01

OP you are over generalising. The UK's officially an Anglican country in the same way as France and Spain are Catholic. What upsets some christians is the way that longstanding Christian traditons are perceived as being wiped out to accommodate and indulge minority religions in the UK. One example would be calling Christmas "Winterval" or the "festive holidays" when it has for the last 2000 years been a celebration of the day Christ was born.

Zikes-Crosses are a symbol of faith and should be allowed. Whether the Bible says you MUST or not is irrelevant. People of faith should be allowed to wear a symbol of that faith.

Christians don't want more than equal rights as you have said in your OP, but it worries me that some apsects of christianity are being "phased" out so as not to cause offence to other religions. In other words, the feelings of other religious followers are being protected at the exepnse of Christianity.

My point about over generalising is this: I consider msyelf C of E but in no way endorse anti homosexual prejudice. Some bigots use parts of the Bible out of context and are self righteous as a result. Not all Christians are bigots, just as not all Muslims are fundamentalist.

HattiFattner · 23/03/2011 09:02

I think that there is a lot of Christian bashing in the world at the moment, and I'm frequently amazed that there people are prepared to say things that they would never dream of saying to a Muslim or a Hindu or a Jew.

Things like "Jesus Fucking Christ on a bike" - can you imagine someone saying "Mo-fucking-hammed on a bike" or "Lord Fucking Krishna on a bike" .

It seems that people can see the offence when it comes to people of "foreign" faiths, but not with Christian faith. No-one in their right mind would denigrate the Prophet, or Krishna or Ganesh, nor openly critisise the tennants of faith of Islam or Hinduism, for fear of being branded "racist". But if you are going to have a debate about religions, it should be about all religions, and should be done in a respectful way.

feggyart · 23/03/2011 09:08

My husband is an ordinand and would also never endorse anti homosexual prejudice.

YABU AND generalising.

NestaFiesta · 23/03/2011 09:09

Hatti- I couldn't agree more.

Makingaminime · 23/03/2011 09:10

Some superb points made - Christian-bashing is not only acceptable in the general population, it is encouraged.

On many websites like MN, threads about muslims, gypsies and other minorities are usually shut down within a few pages, whereas threads about how Christians are stupid, naive, irritating, deluded, annoying, intolerant etcetera, they just run and run.

cookcleanerchaufferetc · 23/03/2011 09:12

I agree with nestafiesta. We are historically a Christian country and our religion should be out first. Why should we get rid of merry Christmas lights to accommodate others? Not in a million years would a Muslim country grant such freedom to other religions but as per usual, our country bends over to out others first and forget the rights of the people of this country. If people are so focussed on their religion, which is their right, then they should live somewhere which accommodates it, rather than imposing their beliefs, such as sharia law, into our society. My sister's kid did RE at school and covered every religion in depth with about 5 minutes spent of Christianity.

lesley33 · 23/03/2011 09:14

I agree that changing the names of festivals like Xmas is not on.IME it is white people who are afraid of being called racist who do this. All the muslim people I know have a Xmas tree and eat Xmas lunch.

But I don't think I should have to "respect" other people's religions. Yes everyone should be allowed to practice their religion as long as it doesn't contradict the law. And yes we should always be polite to individual people.

But I honestly don't see why it is wrong for people to criticise, laugh at or make fun of other people's beliefs. The reason people don't tend to do this about the Muslim faith is fear. Fear of violence - when you look at how fundamentalists reacted to the cartoons poking fun at Islam. And fear of being called a racist.

carminaburana · 23/03/2011 09:18

Seeker - why have you picked on Christianity and not any other religion?

Why single one particular group out? -

HattiFattner · 23/03/2011 09:38

But I honestly don't see why it is wrong for people to criticise, laugh at or make fun of other people's beliefs.

Because its bullying. Its aimed at belittleing someone. Its intended to browbeat someone into destroying a deeply personal relationship.

Look at it another way. Would you openly critisie, laugh at and make fun of someone's spouse? If someone loved them deeply and respected them? No, of course not! It would be deeply insulting and terribly rude. It says more about you than about them.

MillyR · 23/03/2011 09:41

I think that the cultural aspects of Christianity have a privilege in this country, because this country has a Christian tradition and most people in the UK are culturally Christian.

As most people are culturally Christian, but not religious, that means that Christianity has a higher profile. This sometimes works in the favour of religious Christian people - the non-religious people around them are far more likely to celebrate Christmas than Eid, to accept a carol concert in their school, a nativity play in their school, a Christmas tree in their place of work, to visit and financially support churches for heritage reasons, to have knowledge of the parables and of religious art.

But is also works the other way. Because most non-religious people are culturally Christian, we are also likely to use Christian blasphemy like Christ on a bike or bloody hell, to mock areas of Christianity, to dress up as nuns and priests for a hen night, to tie someone as a cross as a joke as students, to roll our eyes at people wearing sandwich boards saying 'the end of the world is nigh', to have gay disco nights with choir boys and angels.

Because Christians cannot have it both ways. The non-religious don't treat Christianity like we treat other religions, because while Christianity may be their religion, it is our shared Christian culture.

Religious Christian organisations press for Christianity to be a major part of public life, with far more visibility than other religions, so they cannot complain when we make it part of our public life in ways that we see fit. Behave like any other religion and maybe society will give you the same level of respect.

carminaburana · 23/03/2011 09:46

Seeker - where are you?

I'd really like to know why you've picked on Christians?
You can't start a thread like this if you're not prepared to answer a few questions.

L33 - So people don't pick on Islam because they're scared of the possible repocussions ? - So Christianity is an easy target for bullies ?

Chil1234 · 23/03/2011 09:47

"One example would be calling Christmas "Winterval" "

Urban myth again, sorry....

cantspel · 23/03/2011 09:52

not urban myth

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4398680.stm

that is one quick google but i could give many examples

cantspel · 23/03/2011 09:54

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/210672.stm

cantspel · 23/03/2011 09:55

what am i doing wrong. Why wont my links work?

carminaburana · 23/03/2011 09:59

It's not an urban myth - far from it - that's why this thread is so pathetic.

MillyR · 23/03/2011 10:00

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/210672.stm

MillyR · 23/03/2011 10:01

Winterval is an urban myth. Your link doesn't refer to winterval.

To do links, put around the web address.

NestaFiesta · 23/03/2011 10:01

MillyR "Behave like any other religion and maybe society will give you the same level of respect".

I almost can't explain why- I'm still trying to phrase it in my head- but I find this a bit offensive.

Christians can't control light herated mockery of their religion and I am proud to live in a country where freedom is speech is encouraged.

MillyR · 23/03/2011 10:02

I don't think most Christians mind a bit of light hearted use of Christianity; a lot of them do it themselves.

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