to think that Christians do not want equal treatment, they want their views to be given a privileged in public life.

[seeker]

and that the discrimination that some Christians claim they are suggering is actually just the withdrawing of that privileged position, and the levelling of the playing fiels for people of faith and people without faith.

I dont believe in any religion - I put any belief in any god on a par with beleving in goblins or fairies BUT from that standpoint I can see that Christianity is descriminated against in ways in which NO other religion would tolerate.

Milly R- That is a fantastic explanation.
seeker- completely agree with your OP, and also with Chil, plus, the C of E bishops automatically sit in the House of Lords. How is that not a priviliged position for christianity? No other religious leaders or spokespersons are automatically allowed make the law in this way.

Church leaders have clashed with a council over its decision to call Christmas festivities Winterval.

Archdeacon Barton: "A potty name"
Birmingham City Council used the phrase to describe its programme of festive family events over Christmas and the New Year.

So i would say that is renaming to winterval.

I dont really care if people want to make anti christian jokes at my expense but i do wonder why it is viewed acceptable when to make racist, sexist, homosexual or any other jokes aimed at a group of people is not.

But the fact that people in other religions sometimes don't tolerate certain comments on their religion reduces creativity and expression for people who are culturally connected to those religions.

Like this: news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_midlands/4107437.stm

I thought Winterval was officially advertised in Birmingham a couple of years back? I'm sure I saw it.

Anyway, regardless, I agree with what many people have said about it being okay to ridicule and disrespect Christians but not other religions. When I was at university I had a perverted version of the Lord's Prayer scrawled on my door and boys shouting "Oy come out here, Jesus is waiting to fuck you up the arse". I definitely can't imagine them getting away with doing the equivalent to a Muslim student.

It's a very good point about the Christian culture of our country making non religious people treat Christians differently though.

Substitute Muslim or Jew in the thread title.

Says it all really.

"Winterval" was a marketing exercise created by Birmingham City council as a festival that was to run from the end of October, through to January and incoroporate a lot of different winter-themed events and activities. Christmas carried on as normal, of course. A bishop made some throwaway comment about 'why don't they just call it Christmas?' in a pamphlet... which was taken up by various fascist groups as proof of it being 'Christmas cancelled so as not to offend nasty foreigners' and the rest is history. Total myth...

Manic, the myth of winterval:

www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/dec/08/religion.communities

When every child in state primary has to, by law, participate in a daily act of celebration of gay culture rather than Christian worship, I will consider it acceptable for the general public to mock gay culture rather than Christian culture.

It's true though expat - if the thread title had Muslims or homosexuals instead of Christians, I doubt it would still be here.

Why is it ok to pick on Christians?

It is acceptable because we live in a Christian culture, not a Muslim or homosexual one.

MillyR - I fail to understand what you mean by "Behave like any other religion and maybe society will give you the same level of respect". Each religion is different from every other one, how can you expect them to behave alike? Whilst there may be some shared similarities between some branches of the Abrahamic religions such as the attitudes some people hold towards homosexuals I cannot see how you can expect all religions to behave alike when they are, by their very nature, different.

I agree with much of what Hatti has said. As a Christian I do not like to hear people blaspheming, particularly in front of my children or in my own home. It does irritate me that as a society we find it perfectly acceptable to swear in such a way when we would not dream of using Allah or Mohamad's name in that way. I appreciate that people may feel that it is acceptable to blaspheme due to our general Christian culture. Personally, I still think it is rude.

zikes, the headscraf is not demanded by the religon, but by the culture. The religon only extols both male and female to dress modestly. There are many muslim women who are still considered muslim but, do not wear a scraf or hijab.

In which case not sure a big difference to wearing a crufix .

We live in a white/Anglo culture, too. Shall we bash them as well?

Er? So Muslims and homosexuals aren't part of our culture ?

Has anyone told them yet?

"One example would be calling Christmas "Winterval" or the "festive holidays" when it has for the last 2000 years been a celebration of the day Christ was born."

Is it really still necessary to point out that Christmas is actually a pagan festival that was renamed? Now my history isn't great, but since there are stone constructions built to honour the winter solstice dating back to the stone age, that is longer than 2000 years I believe?

Things change, the world is fluid. We must adapt to the times we are living in.

Jaffa, I don't think the nature of the behaviour has to be the same, I think the extent of the behaviour when imposing it on the non-religious has to be the same if you want the non-religious to have the same attitude to all religions.

But in reality most people don't want that and neither do I. They are happy for Christianity to be important in our culture, but that means we use it in a variety of cultural ways. In much the same way I might mock English traditions as well as celebrating them, but I would consider it rude to mock the French, because French culture isn't my culture.

Carmina, they are part of our culture, but they are not the dominant part of our culture. We don't organise public holidays to fit in with Eid or Gay pride.

I have lived in brighton where the culture is very gay so does that mean if i move to kemp town i can make gay jokes and that will be ok?
Or maybe i can move to luton with it's high muslim population and make anti islamic jokes.

MillyR isn't that the point that's being argued here? That Chrisitanity dominates our culture, when many would prefer it didn't.

Jaffa, I do agree with you that it is unacceptable for someone to blaspheme in front of your children or in your home. I don't think Ron should have repeatedly said 'bloody' in the Harry Potter films, as they are made for children.

Cantspel, if you predominantly participate in gay culture, then possibly so. I think that is a judgement call you can only make in the situation. I very much doubt that there are more people participating in gay culture than straight culture in Brighton though. I don't know about Luton, but certainly in Bradford, which people for some reason often consider to be a 'Muslim city,' the vast majority of people are not actually Muslim.

manicinsomniac - (RE the university story) That is an absolutely vile thing to do to someone, religion or not. I haven't seen that level religious discrimination.

Personally, I hate any form of prejudice.

silverboy - great point about the scarf's. There is no difference, really. The rules should be the same regardless of which faith or no faith, I think.

To extend the point, not only should we ask why one religion should be allowed to wear a non-essential item to demonstrate their faith, but if that is the case, why should non-religios folk not be allowed to wear an item that has a meaning to them? By that, I mean, for example, if the neckless something passed down through the family? By extension, what about wedding rings?

Christian culture is the 'official' culture: bishops in H ofL, daily act of christian worship in schools enshrined in law, easter bank holiday, head of state as head of c of e etc, so can't spel's point re kemp town/luton doesn't hold, as those cultures aren't imposed from above in the same was as Christianity blatantly is.

Milly if i went in a gay pub in kemp town and made gay jokes i can assure you it wouldn't go down well either from the gay or straight in the area.

The fact that this thread exists says it all. Expat sums it up nicely.