To think that it is not particularly healthy to "promote" being plus size?

[MaterTheGreater]

I'm sure this discussion's been done, so no yawns please, but on Radio 2 this afternoon they were talking about the story in the news that 1 in 4 items sold in women's clothing are a size 18 or over.

They were saying that this was great and that Adele was a great role model for women.

Now I agree that they shouldn't be sending size zero models down the catwalk, and I think it's great that some designers are using something like a size 14, but I really don't think it's in any woman's best interest to think that a size 18 is a good thing.

I love Adele - she has an amazing voice, and comes across as a lovely girl, but she is definitely "overweight", and healthwise that can never be a good thing.

I know that obviously if you are taller with a bigger frame, then you need a bigger size, but I think even at 5'11" (which a good friend of mine is), an 18 would still be overweight.

I am 5'8" and a size 18 on the top half and 16 on the bottom and I am totally miserable. I am constantly worried about my health and the effect that my weight has on it. I am currently trying to shed the pounds, which is hard, but I really do not want to be this size - it's disgusting and unhealthy and I hate all the "big is beautiful" bollocks.

I see your point Annie, however, you know in your heart that you are doing what you need to do to make yourself healthy. You are size 16/18 because of your height, not your weight. I go to the gym a few times a week and see overweight people there but would never begrudge them because they are on the road to the health. Its not something that happens overnight. The people that burn my ass are those that keep putting on weight under the aegis that they are comfortable in their own skin and have the big is beautiful mentality, (which, sorry, does not refer to being obese.) I lost 70 pounds in a short period because I was hyperthyroid and found running really helped balance it along with a specific eating regime, not a 'diet', and running is the best cardio exercise with the quickest results. My husband is a Chef so although we eat very well, I overindulge a lot, in food and booze and although its very mentally satisfying, physically, it does me in.

Annie and Leonie

I don't think anyone on here would judge anyone being overweight due to medical conditions. The original point of the thread was about promoting plus sizes as being healthy, not having a dig at overweight people.

That said, I would think that a high proportion of overweight people are overweight simply because they eat too much and exercise too little and unfortunately it means that all larger people get tarred with the same brush.

Wow what an emotive thread.

"Generalise less, it makes you look like an arse. My mom's diabetes is hereditary. So is her thyroid problems. Do fuck off, there's a good girls."

Rude.

So rude.

And no need for it.

You are the one looking like an arse Leonie.

Well said, Bunbaker.

I really don't think alot of what was said early on in this thread was meant offensively. It was just recognising that we now see larger sizes as "normal" and maybe this isn't a good thing.

Diabetes and thyroid problems can be hereditary but as far as I know thyroid problems haven't been linked to lifestyle factors whereas the chances of developing diabetes can be reduced if weight is kept down and a good diet is followed.

Hyperthyroidism tends to lead to weight loss whereas hypothyroidism can lead to weight gain.

So it is ok to judge people who are fat simply because they eat unhealthily then? Is it only "worthy" fatties (ie thyroid problems) who are ok? The rest of us, are in fact disgusting and deserve all the ridicule and ostracising we get?

Being unhealthy shouldn't be promoted, but being happy with ones self should. Banning all fatties from the public eye and making people feel like freaks won't solve the problem.

Nearly all people who are overweight feel horrible about it. We aren't this way because we like it. It isn't easy, it isn't nice.

The truth is, with the way the system is, nothing will change. I go to the doctor for help, and what do they do? They give me a photocopied sheet about food groups and what I should and shouldn't eat. How patronizing! As if I don't know all that already! They offer Orlistat, but this is only a temporary measure and no doubt after I stop taking it I will go back to my old habits. I ask about excersise on referral, because I am broke and cannot afford the gym/swimming/excersise classes, and am told they only do it during the day time when I am at work, plus it is also only an 8 week course. So after that I have to find the money to pay for it again.

What I really need help with is how to get over my psychological need for certain types of food. I need help to beat bad habits. I need councelling and I need encouragement, not berating. I need structured excersise lead by professionals to keep me going when I loose motivation.

So those of us who struggle financially are stuck. We cannot get out. We can't afford weight watchers, we can't afford realistic excercise, and we can't afford to buy healthy food.

I hate a society in which being bigger than a size twelve is seen as disgusting.

We shouldn't be worried about size but rather about health. Someone very early on pointed out that you can be stick thin and unhealthy and you can be a plus size and be healthy.

I remember a thread on here a few weeks ago when someone said they felt somehow sorry for a groom at a wedding because the bride was overweight and she didn't understand how he was marrying her. I gave it my first biscuit as I found it so stupid I could not even put the energy into formulating an answer to it.

Some people are just big and some are big because of their lifestyles. I come from a culture where big is not necessarily unhealthy and men like women with meat on their bones, big hips, bums and thighs. Being obese is a different matter and if you do over eat, people will comment on it. But there is a much healthier attitude overall to womens natural shapes and sizes.

I am thin, at my biggest I have only ever been somewhere over a size 12, but I have close relatives and friends who are size 16 to 20. I lived with one of these relatives for a few months, we ate the same diet everyday and she was big and I was small. She has always been bigger, even as a teenager when she played netball, badminton, field hockey, tennis and swam, she was never below a size 12/14.

I also know someone who had a thyroid gland problem, recently had to have surgery to have the gland removed. Being on the medication for it means she will always be a certain size, the gland itself caused her to drastically lose weight and made her incredibly ill so she had to be hospitalised.

There are plenty of reasons why people can be over a size 14, and they are not all excuses. Some people are just built that way, especially if they are tall and broad in body type. I am 5.8 and currently a size 12 (and rising as I am pregnant), my doctor was always concerned that I wasn't eating right at a size 8/10 and I even got a lecture about not following fashion too religiously by a nurse once. But that is just how my body is built, I have never dieted a day in my life as I think it is a very unhealthy habit and builds mental health issues that can lead to a strong dislike of your body.

Yes there are also people who are overweight because of poor lifestyle choices and this is a genuine concern, but not everyone larger than a size 14 should be lumped into this category. I have also encountered people who are plus size and say "oh well my doctor is always worried about me getitng diabetes but I'm fine so that means there is nothing wrong with my size". This is incorrect, there may be no apparent health problems now, but your doctor is probably thinking about an accumulation of problems that will show up ten years down the line. But as I said, this is only something I feel apply's to people who are plus size because of bad lifestyle choices.

Women are naturally supposed to have some fat on their bodies, especially at childbearing age when you body needs it for various purposes.

So people should stop trying to be a size 10 when they are not, but also should not use "big is beautiful" as a way out of addressing unhealthy lifestyle issues. It is a bit of both.

Essay done

There's a lot of protesting on here. I don't see fat bashing but I do see statistics saying our country has dangerously high levels of fat people. Something needs to be done to stop these levels increasing at the rate they currrently are and pointing out that one in every 1000 peoples weight is not their fault doesn't help

I don't think that is the point NotaMopsa, personally I think it is more than 1 in every 1000 and also the definition of what is fat is wrong. Some people see being slightly bigger than a size 12 as fat and that is worrying. Also there is no allowance given for the fact that some people are naturally like that.

Thats why I mentioned the different attitude in my culture, if people see you as over eating, it is taken into account. But if you are naturally bigger, no one batrs an eyelid at you weight. People come in all shapes and sizes, and that is more acknowledged.

I also said this: Yes there are also people who are overweight because of poor lifestyle choices and this is a genuine concern, but not everyone larger than a size 14 should be lumped into this category.

We shouldn't be worried about size but rather about health. Someone very early on pointed out that you can be stick thin and unhealthy and you can be a plus size and be healthy.

In society people immediately label a larger person, but not a thin person who may be very unhealthy. But because that person is thin, no one bats an eyelid though they may be very unhealthy.

Oh but they do label thin women, LDN. When I was younger and slimmer I was regularly accused of being anorexic and felt I had to eat well in front of people even when not hungry as they watched me. People would tell me to "put some weight on" and "aren't you scrawny". Not very nice and can make you feel very self-conscious. Thank goodness for getting older and not worrying about such things and people any more.

This thin = unhealthy attitude eludes me??

tbh even the plus size clothes arent very nice its does prove as motivation to loose weight
im trying to

I don't think people are saying it has to be unhealthy, Nota, just that it can be. You can live on crap, be thin and not be healthy.

Why does Adele have to be a role model for any kind of size? She's a singer for goodness sake. Can't we just let her get on with that without agonising over whether she is promoting a healthy size or body? So in that sense, YABU I'm afraid.

hissymissy

No-one is suggesting banning 'fatties' from the public eye. If you read this thread from start to finish, most posters have been very reasonable. there's the odd extremist loon but you get that on any thread.

And a lot of us have said that we understand that making people feel sh*t about their excess weight doesn't help. Having low self-esteem does cause people to behave in self-destructive ways.

'The truth is, with the way the system is, nothing will change. I go to the doctor for help, and what do they do? They give me a photocopied sheet about food groups and what I should and shouldn't eat. How patronizing! As if I don't know all that already! They offer Orlistat, but this is only a temporary measure and no doubt after I stop taking it I will go back to my old habits.'

With the best will in the world, what do you expect them to do? There is no miracle cure available and there is a point at which one has to accept that some will-power and hard work is going to be involved.

Re. exercise on referral: I'm sorry, but I fail to see why the taxpayer should foot the bill for people's gym memberships but that's another thread. Going for a walk or jog of an evening or on the weekend costs nothing. Dancing around your living room for half an hour to your favourite music costs nothing. Using an exercise DVD is an initial cost of about £10 and then nothing. What they do cost is effort and motivation. Is not easy to get started when you're a stranger to exercise but it can be done.

You don't need weightwatchers. You can work out the calorie and fat content of food yourself. There are numerous free websites to help you do it.

As for psychological need for certain types of food; well, if it is a genuine psychological problem then go back to your GP and ASK for a counselling o CBT referral.

And healthy food costing too much money? I totally disagree. Vegetables are very cheap. Value range wholemeal pasta and rice are very cheap. Cous cous is very cheap. Eggs are reasonably cheap. Spending a bit of time at the weekend planning meals and home-baking is very cheap and very satisfying.

Meat is expensive, alcohol is expensive, chocolate and crisps are expensive, cheese is expensive. Frozen ready-meals are expensive (and full of nasty additives).

Please don't think I'm having a pop at you; I'm not. Just trying to help you see that what you see as barriers to you losing weight and becoming healthier are actually more like excuses than genuine barriers.

Some people do have real barriers: illnesses and medication that prevents them from losing weight or causes them to gain weight; disabilities which prevent them from exercising and so on.

You could become healthier if you really wanted to. Don't believe that you can't or that you're not worth the effort- you are. And your self-esteem could be greatly improved by taking control of this aspect of your life.

Sorry for multiple short paragraphs- not very easy to read

I have a couple of friends who are overweight. They are gorgeous, but their weight issues are like a burden they carry with them all the time.

I see first hand how their weight impacts on their lives - always dressing to conceal themselves, hating summer because of clothing issues, being inactive because their size restricts them, always apologising for/making light of their size, paranoia about photos being taken or ending up on facebook etc etc

I worry about them in terms of the consequences of their weight on their health. But I would never dare say this to either of them, as I feel their self-esteem is so fragile, I only tell them how lovely they look.

And they do look lovely, but they would look a whole lot lovelier/happier/healthier if they were to lose weight.

I feel the same smartypants re overweight friends and yet I probably wouldn't hesitate to tell a friend if I though they were dangerously overweight. Both are equally unhealthy ways to be, I would imagine.

Thinking about it, during my slimmest times, I have had comments from friends along the lines of: 'don't lose any more weight!', bearing in mind I have never weighed less than 8.5 stone in my adult life and am only 5' 3". I have NEVER been underweight so it's odd that friends have felt the need to 'warn' me when I am actually at a perfectly normal weight for my height. Interestingly, when I veered towards 10 stone (certainly a bit overweight for my height and frame) none of these same friends said: 'don't put on any more weight!'

Olifin, I think there's areal dichotomy between what you can and can't say to a person based on their size.

I am slim-ish, (10 stone, 5'7'') but I was saying to one of my sisters last night that I wanted to lose half a stone before my holiday in 2 weeks, as I would feel good/confident in a bikini. She immediately said 'your face will be scrawny', 'you'll look too thin', when i know that 9.5 stone is no way too thin for my height.

It's like, you're allowed to be slim but don't look too good!

Just seen the fairly crucial typo in my first post- I meant to say that I probably wouldn't hesitate to tell a friend if I thought they were dangerously underweight! Like you say- it seems we feel freer to comment on people losing weight but not gaining it.

As a 'skinny bitch', 'anorexic', 'Belsen victim' (take your pick, I've been called all of them over the years) I find the assumption that nobody picks on thin people to be laughable. I've also had the 'don't lose any more weight!' comment followed by 'ewwww!' to reinforce how disgusting my slimness is. One of my friends even cheered when I mentioned I was putting on some weight.

torridon that is awful.

Leonie Yes Thyroid inbalances are hereditary, however there is an increasing amount of studies demonstrating types of Hypothyroids that are linking to unhealthy lifestyles, demonstrated by the incredible increase of women suffering from hypothyroid. Culprits being looked at are GMO's and processed food. I am however, tired of listening to people say they can't do anything about their weight (and I have a few in my family too) because they are hypothyroid while they shove second helpings of dessert in their mouths. Its defeatism and is not healthy. Making appropriate changes and seeing them require far more self discipline and it is a lifelong way to live, not something that should only be achieved until you get to your perceived ideal weight, usually dictated as well by popular media and other celebrities, and then discarded.

Hissy Your excuses were mine 15 years ago. I bought a bike and rode to work everyday; 40 minutes each way. Then I took up running. Really, only you can make the changes, no matter how many professionals you have detailing what you need to do. There is a plethora of information on the internet and sites with programs that you can sign up with to keep you motivated. For a remedial explanation of the true financial cost of eating unhealthy view this episode of The Doctors. Yes, its a daytime talk show, but it points it out pretty clearly. I am an artist and the beauty where many wouldn't even take a second glance and by no means want to put 'fat' people out of the public eye, but when it starts to affect me financially because my health care cost are rising at a rapid rate because people refuse to self moderate, that pisses me off. In Canada, it has been point blankly stated that the main reason for the rising cost of health care is due to increase of diseases related to obesity. Contrary to popular belief, we do not get free health care in this country.

Honeybee You are not sucked in by popular culture. However, in promoting plus size clothes, Adele is now a role model. That is how the pop culture beast works. Teenagers will see her and think 'well, Adele is overweight and she made it, so can I'. Adele will die young if she doesn't improve her lifestyle.

Offlin and smartypants Indeed.