To think that it is not particularly healthy to "promote" being plus size?

[MaterTheGreater]

I'm sure this discussion's been done, so no yawns please, but on Radio 2 this afternoon they were talking about the story in the news that 1 in 4 items sold in women's clothing are a size 18 or over.

They were saying that this was great and that Adele was a great role model for women.

Now I agree that they shouldn't be sending size zero models down the catwalk, and I think it's great that some designers are using something like a size 14, but I really don't think it's in any woman's best interest to think that a size 18 is a good thing.

I love Adele - she has an amazing voice, and comes across as a lovely girl, but she is definitely "overweight", and healthwise that can never be a good thing.

I know that obviously if you are taller with a bigger frame, then you need a bigger size, but I think even at 5'11" (which a good friend of mine is), an 18 would still be overweight.

I am 5'8" and a size 18 on the top half and 16 on the bottom and I am totally miserable. I am constantly worried about my health and the effect that my weight has on it. I am currently trying to shed the pounds, which is hard, but I really do not want to be this size - it's disgusting and unhealthy and I hate all the "big is beautiful" bollocks.

Simply the abundance of food to be had and lack of exercise, humans natural state is far from the size 18's and normally our environment would have kept our eating habits in check (there would also be more exercise) but we no longer live in such a way meaning we have to control ourselves, its why you won't see an obese rabbit in the wild but I have seen many obese pets. People in the UK have been getting bigger the same sizes are even bigger than they were before. Too much food (even good food), too much bad food and lack of exercise is the general cause of this, there are a few that have health problems which cause weight issues but this group makes for the minority of cases.

Obesity or close to it is not good at all, and positive propaganda is really not helpful, especially since obesity levels are rising (were not that far behind America) and you have 1 in 3 10-11 yr olds who are morbidly obese.

"However, calories spent equation does work" not completely it doesn't not in teh way people used to think though its a pretty good rule of thumb and its pretty sure that if you are eating too many of any calorie and expending too few you will put on weight. But its perfectly possible to consume the same calories as someone with a comparable metabolism and put on weight when they are not if you are eating different things.

REfined carbs tend to increase your insulin production, too much insulin is bad bad bad. (not as bad as too little, but too little is what you'll end up with if you secrete too much as you are only born with a finite amount). Insulin predisposes you to deposit fat rather than burn fat. So people who eat a low refined carb diet will be more inclined to burn calories consumed and people who eat a high refined carb diet will be more inclined to deposit fat.

Also although not an argument over calories in vs calories out but tradiotnal diets don;t generally take into account teh satiety (sp?) effect of different foods eg protein empty form the stomach slower than refined carbs so people who eat for example cereal for breakfast tend to eat more caloreis later in the later than people who have a boiled egg on toast.

There's a whole lot more I could bore on if you like.

There is also some evidence that eating dairy calcium (milk, yoghurt etc) makes you excrete more fat than otehr foods so you could by eating a higher calorie food lose more weight than eating a lower calorie food. Only early research though at the moment on small test groups.

For all the fat bashing it seems to be more and more normal to be overweight. People just seem to think it's normal. You might think, oh I'm overweight, then you look at the fat people all around, and you can still get into an oversized size fourteen, so you think, oh well I'm not that heavy. Men too, very much so. Also the use of the word obese medicalises it. Makes it a condition, whereas for some people it's a choice.

It is more normal to be overweight because more people are overweight! You only have to read the threads of childrne who are patently overweight on here with everyone agreeing that they are not overweight to realise that indeed people don;t see it so much.

I don;t beleive i fact that the health effects of having a BMI under 30 are particularly significant and certianly most NHS weight loss centres would consider that a reasonable result if people managed to sustain their weight below that level. But you don;t get to have a BMI of 40 or 50 without having one of 30 first and people wait too long to try sorting it out when the problem has become way way more complex than "eat less calories burn more".

And I speak as someone who used to have a BMI of 50 so I know sadly of what I speak.

Being obese in this country is not only unhealthy (Blood sugar, cancer, heart disease, joint problems, respiratory problems) but I think that it is also offensive, because of the waste of food that is involved, when people in most of the world go hungry.

I used to be two stone overweight, and every time I mentioned losing weight (I felt slow and unhealthy, and my family has a history of heart problems) my friends and even my family would go crazy, putting on 'concerned faces' as if any weight loss behaviour necessarily leads to anorexia, and telling me that 'curvy' women were more attractive. Turns out, after I lost the weight, I've never felt better, and I'm do glad I did. I feel more attractive, and, more importantly, physically more able.

Obesity is becoming increasingly 'ok'. Many of my obese aquaintainces 'absolve' themselves by constantly complaining about how dreadful it is that most women feel like they need to starve themselves to be beautiful (I don't think this is true at all, I think only a tiny fraction of unfortunate ladies starve themselves for beauty), and congratulate themselves for being so much more reasonable.

My ex was like this too. He was dangerously overweight, and, at the time I left, was having difficulty walking and chest pain too. He refused to do any form of exercise and overate. If I ever mentioned his health, though, he'd berate me for 'undermining his self esteem'. I think people, not just women, need to learn that they can't have it both ways - they can't eat carelessly and still be expected to be treated as if they were as attractive in the same way as others - it's this attitude that nearly ruined my health. Unfortunately, in this culture of constant praise, it's difficult to bring up negative views without being told you're discriminatory, or just plain terrible.

"it's difficult to bring up negative views" don't worry if you find it difficult, there are plenty of people who are quite happy to call you a "fat cow" if you are overweight. Beleive me I have personal experience.

So true saltatrix. There weren't many overweight people in my grandparents' generation and very few obese, I should think. Less food available and people tended to use it more economically. Far more manual work, especially for women in the home. We have to replace that level of activity with something else, ie exercising for the sake of exercising.

I wonder if some people underestimate how much needs to be done. I know the government guidelines recommend 20 mins a day but I imagine that is probably a conservative estimate as they'd rather get people doing something than put them off by recommending an amount which seems unachievable.

Despite being naturally fairly slim, I find I need to do around 4 hours of exercise per week to maintain my weight. That would typically consist of about 2.5 hours CV exercise (vigorous- getting the heart rate up to around 130 bpm, ideally) and an hour and a half of resistance work (weights, abs, pilates etc).

People who are very large and unfit need to start with smaller goals, I realise, but they do need to keep changing those goals as they get fitter, rather than relying on a bit of walking or yoga a few times a week.

Kewcumber, I hope you weren't implying that I'd use that kind of language. Having been on the recieving end myself, aggressive insults don't help anybody, I know.

Leonie don't feel you have to defend yourself to anyone here. Your thyroid problem obviously makes weight loss more difficult, I guess. Did you have breakfast? Sounds like you might not be eating often enough, to be honest. have you tried eating little and often? i.e. 5 small meals a day. By small, I mean what people might think of as child-size portions.

The trampolining sounds good- that's a very vigorous form of exercise but walking, although undoubtedly good for you, doesn't burn many calories, unless you're power walking (unlikely if you're pushing a buggy). Exercise needs to really raise your heart rate, make you out of breath and preferably sweat a bit! i am usually purple when i return from a run. It's not a good look, granted, but it does burn a hell of a lot of calories.

Jeez I would never call anyone a fat cow. I've read two people on this thread that have thyroid issues. How can you know from the outside? It's the numbers of people, plus the figures you read about diabetes and joint issues etc, that make you think, this isn't the way it was.

Er can I just say. Even if it's not a thyroid/medication/whatever issue and you could tell from the outside, I would not call anyone a fat cow. Ahem. As you were.

Show me one - ONE - fat person who claims that if they were given the chance to wake up slim/healthy sized tomorrow morning, they would turn it down and I'll show you a liar.

I have no idea why being plus-sized is being touted as a good thing, any more than I agree with stick-thin models, who clearly exist of a diet of Red Bull and tissues, teetering and wobbling their waify way down the catwalk.

Dawn French was always going on about how happy she was being thin - til she got married and dieted down to a size "12" (yeah right Dawn - Whatever you say luv).

I am a size 12-14 but at 5ft I look obese, luckily I have a real hourglass figure. The thing is however much weight I loose my boobs stay the same size. When I was 16 I was 7st but still had a FF chest, now I weigh 10stone and still have a FF chest. Surley things like breasts should be taken into consideration when working out BMI becuase im sure my boobs must wiegh a fair bit!
My hips are the same, even at 7st I had wide hips, now I still have wide hips, there isn't a lot of fat on them. My waist however is tiny yet im still consisdered 'unhealthy'

Alos just like to add, I eat feck all and am still this size so I figure this is just 'my' size. I excersise alot in day to day life to.

Kewcumber, I hope you weren't implying that I'd use that kind of language - no I wasn't. Was just pointing out that most people don;t find it dificult to refrain from negative comments about people being overweight.

Kewcomber, that's ok. I agree that people can use very ugly language, but I don't agree that this represents most people. I think that a greater number of people than the insulty-types would fall over themselves to say that 'they wouldn't call someone "fat" ' even if they were clearly overweight due to careless eating. To be fair on them, they probably think they're doing a good deed, and helping people's self esteem, like my friends did when they kept telling me never to change my diet.

In addition, a lady who I live with has recently turned quite nasty about my recent weight loss. She used to be slimmer, but does very little with herself now, and overeats while playing computer games most of the day. Ever since I dropped my weight, she's constantly throwing 'friendly jokes' into conversations about how I 'eat so weirdly' and 'still manage to lose weight' (I eat very regularly, and quite a good amount). Recently she went on for quite a while, in front of some of my friends who were visiting, about how 'She never eats. I never see her eat. It's really worrying'. This, as far as I am concerned was pulled right out of her ass just to make a point. It ended up with my visiting friends being really worried about me because of her lies, and quizzing me to see if I was ok.

I also know plenty of very skinny people who eat loads, and are victims of constant 'light-hearted digs' at their skinnyness. People of every size are judged for different reasons.

Agrees with InPraiseOfBacchus... it's not an easy subject to discuss because it is a very 'self congratulatory' society that we live in. Except it isn't really, is it? An obese person may well accept themselves as healthy and/or attractive but that doesn't mean that the rest of society will buy in to that view also. My biggest annoyance is the 'mis-sizing of clothes' and the constant subliminal 'drip drip' of 'acceptance of anything' as normal.

Of course people have the choice to be whatever size they want to be; they make choices to support that decision, but it doesn't mean that plus-sized should be dressed up as 'normal' and 'healthy'. It may be usual/common, but it is not 'normal/healthy' and shouldn't be promoted as such.

Obesity is a far-reaching condition that has such long-term effects on whole families, not just the person who is obese. Some of our kids are getting very big, way too big, and they're missing out on their childhoods. :(

I am fat but no one has ever said anything unkind to me about my weight. I don't think there is a lot of fat-bashing in society. My step mother mentions it, but she's only telling the truth. No one suggests I am unkind, boring, lazy or stupid (at least not to my face ha!) due to my size. I simply am fat. I don't even judge myself for it particularly, I just can't seem to find a way to do something about it atm. Am size 16 btw.

Kewcumber, that's interesting re insulin production and I think I have heard something of it before. What intrigues me is that before my 30s I had a really sweet tooth (a tin of golden syrup every three weeks) and was very thin but now I prefer savoury and have definitely gained weight. I had heard that eating sugary things can reduce your desire for fatty things so you actually take in fewer calories overall. Have you heard anything like that?

BTW, I know on my very sweet diet I wasn't healthy and am a lot healthier now even if I am bigger. I guess nothing's black and white.

That's weird Happy and I can't pretend to understand the science behind it but a friend of mine (in our younger years) got really quite thin on a diet of cake and biscuits and nothing else. Obviously she wasn't eating masses of the stuff but enough to stave of hunger, I guess.