To think that it is not particularly healthy to "promote" being plus size?

[MaterTheGreater]

I'm sure this discussion's been done, so no yawns please, but on Radio 2 this afternoon they were talking about the story in the news that 1 in 4 items sold in women's clothing are a size 18 or over.

They were saying that this was great and that Adele was a great role model for women.

Now I agree that they shouldn't be sending size zero models down the catwalk, and I think it's great that some designers are using something like a size 14, but I really don't think it's in any woman's best interest to think that a size 18 is a good thing.

I love Adele - she has an amazing voice, and comes across as a lovely girl, but she is definitely "overweight", and healthwise that can never be a good thing.

I know that obviously if you are taller with a bigger frame, then you need a bigger size, but I think even at 5'11" (which a good friend of mine is), an 18 would still be overweight.

I am 5'8" and a size 18 on the top half and 16 on the bottom and I am totally miserable. I am constantly worried about my health and the effect that my weight has on it. I am currently trying to shed the pounds, which is hard, but I really do not want to be this size - it's disgusting and unhealthy and I hate all the "big is beautiful" bollocks.

Agree with TobyLerone as well. Being the national average is not a good thing in a country where the average person is significantly overweight.

I think we've lost all sense of what a 'normal' and healthy size is. I don't think people like the OP should be calling themselves 'disgusting' but at the same time overweight people do themselves no favours by deluding themselves that there isn't a problem.

Yanbu. I agree with you.

I am overweight, infact I am heavier now than I have ever been, and I hate it.

I have about 2 and half stone to lose to get down to a size 12 and even then I would still have a bmi of 25. I am being realistic in my goals, I am not trying to slim down to a 10 or 8, even though I am only 5'2" tall.

I know that it in many cases it is healthier to be moderately overweight than moderately underweight, but once we get to 2 or more stones over a bmi of 25 weight, then there is no denying that we are FAT and I'm afraid I really do not agree that Big Is Beautiful.

In the same way that I do not agree that Size 4 is beautiful.

And having a lot of excess body fat is bad for your health, even if you're otherwise fit and healthy - not just the strain excess weight puts on your bones and joints, but also the fact that fat cells are metabolically active and contributing to processes that increase your risk of diseases such as cancers, diabetes and heart disease.

Mater I feel good at that weight too. I'm trying to get back down to it. (Just started couch to 5k, read that women c 40 get fit v quickly by running and it's a really good way to lose weight fairly quickly though the start is slow.)

I looked at starting the couch to 5k a while ago but at the moment I am so fat and wobbly that it is quite uncomfortable to run and feels pretty dodgy in the pelvic floor region! So I am doing a lot of brisk walking, cross trainer and trying to eat a lot more veg/pulses and drink more water. I've lost 7lb but a long way to go!
Once I get to about the 12 and half stone mark I think I will get back into running.

TpbyLerone speaks a lot of sense!

*TobyLerone even

Heh. That's not said often enough around here

I think it is positive that clothes etc are available in all sizes etc. Weight is a v touchy issue,I know I feel great when I've lost weight & look better too. I am v happy in my own skin even when there is too much of it. Adele is not a model,she is a singer & probably gets thoroughly pissed off hearing wow you are such a role model for plus size women. If your body is that abhorrent to you,then change it. It may not be dieting but toning up,exercise is supposed to give you a wonderful burst of endorphins which will certainly help you to see the world in a more positive way.

Also agrees with TonyLerone. I think the 'Big is beautiful' message is really irresponsible. 'Healthy is beautiful' is a better one.

The post about the knitting patterns reminded me of something I once read about Versace... he refuse to make clothes in any size larger than a 12 as he said that he didn't want people bigger than that to wear his clothes and make them look bad. It sounds harsh but there are more plus sized clothes shops around now than there ever were and maybe the abundance of a variety of clothes, to fit every size, is what is contributing to the obesity problem in this country.

I'm going to watch the Channel 4 programme tonight about 'fat to skinny' children. I think there's a lot of very good advice and support out there and I really feed sad seeing kids about 7-10 not able to join in games and running about with their friends.

I'd like to be a 10-12... it's going to take a bit of effort though. Over 40 is definitely harder.

"I am 5'8" and a size 18 on the top half and 16 on the bottom and I am totally miserable. I am constantly worried about my health and the effect that my weight has on it. "

How is that a better place to be than "I am 5'8" a size 18 and I love and accept myself, my body and my life."?

Perhaps it's not about aspiring to be a size 18, but simply about loving ourselves? Personally OP I'd really hate to feel the way you do about yourself - I have done in the past (years ago now thankfully), it achieves nothing but misery, doesn't make you thin, just wastes your life away wishing you were living another life.

You've got one life, so live it. Don't sit around hating yourself until such time as you are "thin" enough to qualify for love, self acceptance and enjoyment every day. Life is too short and if you are overweight/obese and full of self loathing, it maybe even shorter than most.

We may well be physically better off being a size 14 to an 18, but that doesn't make you a size 14 does it? No - still a size 18 today and probably tomorrow, maybe even the day after that. I think your way of thinking about yourself is clearly "disgusting and unhealthy" too. You might find that a change in self esteem/attitude/way of thinking about yourself brings about a revolution in your life that you have failed to achieve by fighting your own body and belittling yourself on a daily basis.

stands up and applauds HipHopopotomus! I agree with everything you've said!

YANBU to think that being an unhealthy size should not be promoted.

YABU to think that it is not a good thing that larger women have the confidence to enjoy shopping regularly. It is positive that such women are not sitting at home, depressed and wearing tatty clothes!

I dont think they are really promoting it, just celebrating the positives. Before anyone says there are no positives, that's really up to the person who is plus size.

Having clothes that not only fit but that flatter the figure, suit it even, having a role model who is succesful and wealthy despite her size, seeing people enjoying their life just the way they are is a positive thing.

If its all doom and gloom, pressure, disgust, vitrol, and a message that your life should be on hold until you've done something about it, then its far more likely a person will get trapped in a cycle of depression and comfort eating.

Its not about promoting it as such, really.

My personal opinion - I don't think you are being unreasonable in the slightest.

However, the HAES movement (Health at Every Size) insists that people are the weight they are and that, for some people, a healthy diet and exercise is still going to leave themt echnically obese. And that that is okay, healthy and the way they are supposed to be. Apparently it is actually healthier to be overweight than normal weight and certainly than underweight. Healthwise it is only the super morbidly obese that need to worry. The only problem with being overweight and obese is that, as a society, we have decided it is aesthetically unappealing and cover our disgust with the health concern thing.

Not sure I buy it but it's a viewpoint.

I think over the years we have got confused about what being overweight means.

Overweight puts a medical and physical strain on your body. It increases your risk of certain illnesses and diseases. It is physically better to be a healthy weight.

Overweight SHOULD NOT be associated with personality or other characteristics. It does not mean you are lazy or stupid or whatever negative word gets attached. It does not mean you are not attractive or lovable or 'disgusting'.

If we could get away from associating these negative words with being overweight and simply recognise it in the health context it is, then maybe more people would take a step forward to tackling physical weight issues. If we could see overweight like a broken leg or something...no stigma attached. I don't know.

I think this is where the positive role model for plus size is coming from...not saying it is a healthy weight or something to aspire to but it doesnt mean that they are stupid / unattractive or whatever.

HipHopopotomus, I don't think anyone is saying that overweight people ought to be miserable, or dress badly or feel terrible about themselves.

But they should not be held up as physical role models either. Being overweight is unhealthy, especially being significantly overweight. It's not "disgusting", but it's not a good thing.

From what I've read about the HAES approach, I thought the idea was not so much that being overweight is good or OK, but that a focus on weight can be unhelpful and counterproductive for some people (e.g. weight-loss dieting and counting calories can become problematic for some personality types, leading to compulsive binge eating and even greater weight gain and/or worse health outcomes generally). So better to focus on other measures like fitness, blood pressure, cholesterol etc and let the weight take care of itself - some people will lose weight as a side-effect of this, some might not but at least they've improved their weight in other ways.

So sometimes some people do have to stop focusing on weight because it can be counter-productive for them. But it's still not ideal for anyone to be overweight, just that we don't live in a perfect world and given the choice it's better to be fit and fat than just fat!

Well my BMI is 26 and I'm a size 16/18! I'm 5'9.

I've lost 3 stone. Before I lost weight I was a size....16/18.

Makes no sense to me either, but the proof is there!

BEing as overweight as someone like say Dawn French or the Beth Ditto is as unhealthy (and unattractive) as being as underweight as Victoria Beckham.

I have the opposite to TurkeyBurgerthing. I'm a size 14 round the waist and an 16 on top but my BMI is 31 . My doctor says BMI is a useless measurement as it is based on the 'average'person and no-on will conform to it. It doesn't take into account bone density, boob size, etc.

I do agree with the op though, I've only just got down to this size (I was a 22 2 years ago) and I actually resented being able to buy clothes that fit as there didn't seem to be any incentive to lose weight apart from personal feelings.

I wholeheartedly buy in to the idea that you can be healthy and a little overweight. And that to be a little overweight is arguably better for you than to be a little underweight.

But, again, I come back to a 2 stone limit on that, or possibly 3 for the very large and tall.

If you are more than 2/3 stone over your BMI 23/25 weight, or more than a size 14 for short women, 18 for very tall ones, then you are just plain fat and there is no point dressing it up.

Its not nice to pick on a particular individual but when Dawn French was first in The Comic Strip 25 years ago, she was certainly not slim and quite probably overweight. Perhaps a size 14? Obviously she was never destined to be an 8 and weigh 8 stone. That's fine. Yet over the years her weight has gone up and up and up, to now an enormously morbidly obese level. She was noticeably less heavy in The Vicar Of Dibley than she is now. Why is she celebrating this? And why do large women collude with her?

Where does the idea that it's healthier to be a little overweight come from?
(Just out of interest.)

I think there was some research that showed slightly overweight (not obese) people had the highest life expectancy. Though not sure if it corrected for the fact that many people with low life expectancy might be underweight because they're ill, rather than the other way round!

I think BMI is quite a crude measurement, and no it doesn't take into account different body types etc. But there is quite a wide range of possible 'healthy weights' - it's not saying you must be one particular weight for your height - which probably covers all but very rare body types (elite athletes etc).

TBH, the reason moderately curvy people (around the 14-18-ish women's dress size) tend to be healthier is that people of this sort of size have quite often seen through the bullshit that is the slimming industry. THe worst thing you can do for your health is to diet repeatedly.
BECAUSE THE ENTIRE SLIMMING INDUSTRY IS A HARMFUL CON. You go on some or other bullshit diet, you lose some weight, you stop the diet because it's unmanageable, expensive, time consuming, whatever. You regain the lost weight and gain some more, because you have damaged your metabolism. You repeat the cycle. You end up massive.
There's also a big feminist issue about the whole obsession with women's weight. It stems from the idea that women should eat less than men, should be self-negating and not take up too much space.