To get annoyed at people saying our parents had it easier?

[lesley33]

A recurrent theme in some posts is how much easier our parents had things. I am 43 and I don't think my parents had it easier than me.

I know a small number of people who bought houses in the 60's and 70's made money, but most people had it far harder than we do. Just a few things that were harder in 60's and 70's:

• no maternity leave until 1979
• no paternity leave
• standard working week included saturday morning
• two weeks annual leave was standard
• much much more overcrowding in houses
• many many houses had no inside toilet or bathroom
• common to have no central heating
• low car ownership
• very few children went to university
• narrow range of food available

Those who were parents then may be able to add more things. You may think one of the plus points is that many women stayed at home with the children. I have read that almost all of the growth in living standards since the 70's is fuelled by women working.

So you could stay at home and look after your children if you are happy to have a 70's standard of living.

My mother ceryainly had it better. She has never worked a day in her life, she stayed at home a "looked after" the children and home but in fact had full time live-in domestic help and childcare (we lived in South Africa). She had her "afternoon sleep" every afternoon from 2 to 4, when we were not allowed to disturb her because she was tried. Tired FROM WHAT? (Can you tell I feel a bit annoyed, I have a 21-month old, a more than full-time job, as well my own business, working all hours to keep everything together and I have never in my 47 years of exisetence had an afternoon nap except for about three weeks after DS was born).

sorry re typing errors, baby running round

theDude...your post and mine just goes to show that there can be no generalisations about this.

In the 60's and 70's my grandparents had low paid jobs and a council house. Spacious house with a big garden. Mind you they had no car, both worked and did stuggle to buy decent clothes and food. My mum remembers crappy clothes and eating pigs trotters. And a cold house as no central heating. I have better food and heating but a cramped flat with no garden.

I think my parents had it easier in the 80's, my mum wouldn't be a sahm today with my dad in the same job and they would have a smaller house.

You are not being totally unreasonable but neither are you entirely right!

"In the 60's most people worked saturday morning."

That very much depends what your job was for a start.

And secondly, I was born in 77 - so my parents were certainly not working in the sixties, they were at primary school.

If you asked whether my grandparents had it harder than me, I'd say yes, they had a much harder life. But when people moan about how their parents had it easier, don't assume they're wrong just because they're talking about a different generation.

A lot of people on this thread are confusing their own hardships and personal situations with that of a general trend.

There have always been lots of examples of rags - riches- rags in 3 generations, often people make the wrong decisions in life without even realising it, and even though they work very hard, they end up worse off and don't get ahead as they expect. Or, they just don't get that particularly lucky break. Life is often unfair, but it is wrong to confuse your own case with a general trend.

Living standards have improved for most people in the last 40 years. Been saddled by huge debts is often an individual choice.

swings and roundabouts IMO

so many things harder - less labour-saving technology, a less enlightened attitude to women (although sometimes I doubt that and think we are dealing now with a more vicious and refined form of misogynistic culture)

but many things much easier I think. My mother hasn't worked since the early 80s, because she didn't want to - and she still was able to blame her children without many people sneering or calling her lazy

I don't think she did much agonizing over what sort of parent she wanted to be, what effect her day to day behaviour had upon her children, what sort of memories she was creating for them - that might be partly because of her personality, but I think there was less of a culture of "parenting"

similarly if her hcildren behaved badly or stressed her out she just thumped them - no angst, no 'strategies', no self-analysis - just "yes you bloody well will or I'll knock your bloody head off"

My parents had it much easier than me...

They had big house they bought cheap paid of mortgage v quickly - with central heating and inside toilets. My dad did work every saturday morning and every tuesday night until midnight BUT he was otherwise always home for 6pm and had half day on wed.... I wish DH had those hours.

They ran 2 cars (we have one) we had holidays each year (in UK though)... they send us to private secondary school on one salary

I reckon things were probably easier if you were a bloke, harder if you were a woman ...

if you had a job, you would quite legally be paid much less than a man for the same job (I know we still get paid less, but at least in theory the same job should get the same pay)
if your dh moved for work, it was expected that you would move & leave your job (if you had one)
expected to stay home with the kids whether it suited you or not

Some things I agree were better, definitely the fact that my parents could leave school at 16 with minimal qualifications in the late 50s and have a choice of jobs to walk into, and know that if they didn't like their job they could leave & pick up another, also the protection of unions (more for men).

Housing - worse I think for my parents generation because of the shortage of accommodation post war - mine were very grateful that my gps had a large enough house that they could make their own bed sit in it when they got married.

My mum grew up in a two roomed flat in post-war North London. Her mum was a single parent with four children. My mum, being the eldest, basically raised her siblings. The rooms were smaller than my bathroom. Mum is terrified of insects because they would crawl on her at night time.

My dad had it a bit easier because his father was still around.

Neither of them had a decent education. My dad because he is just not very academic, my mum because she has to give up her schooling to work and bring money into the family.

When they married they were just as poor. They worked their way up and out of poverty to own a house. They had three children. They have never been especially rich, but they sent us all to university, made sure we had a few holidays as children and made sure we never went without the basics. They spoilt us rotten at Christmas - still do.

I consider myself to be relatively successful. We have a little money, get away a few times a year, will own this house we built ourselves one day, have a new Merc etc etc. But when I think about where I came from and how much I have improved upon my situation, and where my mum came from and how far she has got since then, there is really no contest. She had it harder than I can imagine, really. I hope DD has it easier again.

Hard to say really...

Most of the things in the OP weren't true for my family. My parents bought a big house in 1971 when I was small, and it already had central heating etc. Both of them worked (teachers) and we had 2 cars. They had both been to uni in the 1950's, each of them came from a working-class background and were the first in their family to go to uni.

Some of this was luck - e.g. the big house was partly luck in moving at the right time. On the other hand, we were unusual in being a 2-income family, most of my friends' mums either didn't work or had say a part-time job at the supermarket. My parents were also relatively old when they had us so were maybe a bit better off.

We had a twin-tub for years but my mum actually loved it because a wash was done so quickly, she didn't see that an automatic would save you standing over it all Saturday morning while you did the week's wash. When it finally broke she saw the light .

But as kids we didn't do a lot of activities, etc. There definitely wasn't the pressure to ferry us about to all sorts of clubs. And, although we had the big things (house, cars, occasional holidays in France - never by plane though), money often seemed to be tight for the little things.

It's not black and white.

Sure, many of our parents' generation were able to afford a mortgage on a decent size house on one salary. Only having one working parent was the norm, certainly when I was young, and mothers who did work, tended to be in low status jobs which fitted round the kids to earn a bit of pin money.

On the other hand, I think people tended to have far lower expectations.... I didn't go abroad until I was an adult, holidays were fairly cheap caravan affairs. We only ran one car and walked everywhere - it was quite a lengthy walk to school, but we just did it. People lived much more simply - we hardly ever ate out, for instance, and I would imagine many families were similar. Family days out were also fairly cheap, 'do it yourself' affairs, whereas now, theme parks, take out meals, special play centres etc are the norm.

I also think that even where things tend to be "easier" at face value, there are often aspects which are a downside - for instance, although many families could afford to live on one income, I bet there were thousands of frustrated women, who went through their lives feeling they could have achieved more. Gender roles were much more narrowly defined that now, which I can't see is a good thing.

Overall, my own mother may have had the 'luxury' of not having to work, but then she never experienced the confidence boost and self esteem that come from having a career.

I think it isnt black and white overall.

'On the other hand, I think people tended to have far lower expectations.... I didn't go abroad until I was an adult, holidays were fairly cheap caravan affairs. We only ran one car and walked everywhere - it was quite a lengthy walk to school, but we just did it. People lived much more simply - we hardly ever ate out, for instance, and I would imagine many families were similar. Family days out were also fairly cheap, 'do it yourself' affairs, whereas now, theme parks, take out meals, special play centres etc are the norm.'

That sounds like most people I knows life now. It all depends on who you know, the area you live and the low wage culture of a particular area that affects these things. Even by doing a lot of those things most people still need 2 people working unless they are happy to claim benefits.

'On the other hand, I think people tended to have far lower expectations.... I didn't go abroad until I was an adult, holidays were fairly cheap caravan affairs. We only ran one car and walked everywhere - it was quite a lengthy walk to school, but we just did it. People lived much more simply - we hardly ever ate out, for instance, and I would imagine many families were similar. Family days out were also fairly cheap, 'do it yourself' affairs, whereas now, theme parks, take out meals, special play centres etc are the norm.'

Yes that's our life and I don't consider us to be hard done by or on the breadline - we are very, very careful with money as are most people I know.

I dont consider us hard done by either. I just wished we were in a situation where one day it will be realistic to live in a house for when we have teens.

My parents had it easier as well. In addition to everything already mentioned, they have both said if they were pissed off with their job/boss/whatever, they simply left and were in a new job by the next morning.

I agree noodle, I bristle slightly at the suggestion that by aspiring to the sort of lifestyle my parents had (and for my children to have the sort of upbringing I had) when work at least as hard then we feel somehow entitled or are living a wild profligate consumerist life.

As I said it isn't something I lose sleep over, I am very glad my parents are comfortable and will be in their old age but it is untrue to say that we 'have it easier' than they did.

(ditto for my grandparents actually - though they were upper middle class senior civil servant & a doctor (my grandma is 88 now), so they had a completely different scale of lifestyle. You'd have to go back to my great-grandparents to find people with outside toilets!)

Oh I know I will never live a life like my parents and my friends parents. Its impossible for our generation to do so in our area because of house prices.

I dont really mind as I have very low expectations compared to my parents. I just feel bad like a lot of my friends about having children growing up in what are/or will become cramped conditions.

I think the OP is too general, as proven by the different experiences on here.

My granny died last week at the ripe old age of 94, and we had her funeral on Friday. My uncle spoke beautifully during her eulogy, telling the story of her life in brief...just missing WW1, living through WW2, the Great Depression, rationing etc etc. So she had a hard life in many respects, but not so in others. She was educated by Governesses and never worked, had 4 children in a series of lovely houses etc. But she lost her husband 30 years ago (just before I was born) to a form of cancer that today's scientific advances might have cured. She never had to rely on anyone due to my Grandfather's pensions and the money from their property, and died in her lovely seafront flat.

My Granny on my mother's side never worked either, not until my grandfather died (again 30 yrs ago, I was a bad omen in our family it seems...) and she got bored and which point she volunteered at the CAB.

They both lived in lovely houses with everything you could wish for (bar their husbands obviously), and my parents followed suit.

In general I think that there is a discrepancy between each generation, ours just seems to be the first that has gone bacwards in some respects.

But we do have many, many advantages that we should feel grateful for (well, I know I do even if I can't put my finger on why)...we just have to be sensible and hope things don't get worse.

In DH's and my case, being able to afford a house big enough to house our rapidly expanding family will involve a move across one, maybe two counties into a house that will be an ongoing project I expect. My family won't be happy as we'll be further away, but that's just how it goes. Once we're there, and in, then it is Project Lose-the-mortgage (catchy eh) and try to live as self-sufficient a life as possible to cushion ourselves from the inevitable changes.

My mother (and she's fairly young, she'll be 51 in a couple of days) doesn't understand why I don't stay home with DS. She's fond of saying that they had no money and she still stayed home with my brother and me. I always tell her "because we'd like to stay in our house, thanks!" It's far different than it was even 20 years ago, but I don't really think it's better or worse across the board.

I also take issue with the post further up saying that people today choose to carry a lot of debt.

That's simply not true in many ways - I have no debt at all, other than my mortgage, but if my kids want to go to university then either they or I will have to run up at least £30,000 debt, and probably much more. Whereas my parents were able to go to university and come out in profit - my FIL actually managed to buy a car with the money he had saved from his maintenance grant!

And likewise, my parents had a very small mortgage, whereas today to even buy a flat, let alone a house, you have to be mortgaged up to the hilt.

If don't call paying for a roof over your head or a basic degree "choosing" to be in debt. That's HAVING to be in debt to maintain even the same standard of living as my parents' generation.

I havent got debt either but a lot of my friends have. A mortgage is still a large chunk of our income though. Thats what has made the difference today as opposed to years ago and the reason why a lot of people have to have 2 people working.

I do agree that I would rather live in the present day though as we are lucky with medical advances.

I was born in 1961 and recall vividly tales of the war, of my grandparents having non petrol, of land army girls, and evacuation - they lived near Folkestone so were at risk of invasion. My grandparents ran the farm from 1945 until 1962 not expecting to inherit it because they didn't know my grannie's brother would shoot himself in 1962 - having survived Changi. My mothers years before I was born were in some ways very privileged, in others very hard. I remember a halcyon childhood and think my mother did have it much easier than me but she is a party girl and a big spender and has been married a little too often. My mother and I are worth about the same I imagine - she has what's left and the main beneficiary of her will is probably Mr Cunard.

The DH and I have worked incredibly hard (I didn't go to uni)having been given nothing by our parents although I inherited a tidy sum in 2001 from my father. My grandmother's, my mother's and my life have all been very different. I think my grannie and I have put more in though. Also, my DH is from working class roots and I'm not if he had been born a generation earlier he would have gone to an outstanding university and then on to professional quals.

I would certainly say that the DH and I worked harder in our 20's and 30's than our parents. I don't know if our children will have it harder than us - they go to outstanding schools and their uni fees will be paid.

One thing my mother cannot comprehend though is why she lives in a large detached seaside property with huge gardens and an in and out drive and all we can afford is a red brick Terrace and carps endlessly about how much better we should live. She has no understanding that SW London is very very expensive.

The comments about some of the older generation not really getting property prices reminds me me of a conversation myself and a colleague were having at work one day. He was thinking of getting a lodger and we were discussing what would be a fair price. Arriving at a figure of 200 pcm another older colleague was horrified as it was more than her mortgage!

I think it is difficult to judge this just on your own experience, as your experience may not be typical.

But looking at the 1961 census:

• Just over 20% of families had no inside toilet. The % very slowly declines until the mid to late 70's when it suddenly dips.

-Just under 12% of households had more than 1 person per room. The equivalent in the 2001 census was 7%.

So your parents may have had a larger house than you, but in general people were more overcrowded. And a substantial number of people had no inside toilet.