to believe that beyond all reasonable doubt

[OurBetty]

there is no god?

I cannot find where I said secular school?

But how far do we go asking for no place in public life? That seems dreadfully sad if that's what you would wish for. It seems so... dreary. So narrow. So grey.

Why not take idea's from everyone, whether religious or not and finding the best fit for human rights.It's balance, it's tolerance; it's not letting one group have rights at the expense of another.

As a Christian nation, Religion cannot be all bad if Christian values have got Britain as far as it is today can it?

Well theres no point. You and your straw man army are talking to the wind. A comment on the lack of secularism in schooling was intepreted by you to mean atheists want to loot all museums and destroy historical texts. And make religion illegal

You'd get a more sensible answer from a king edward.

You said there were plenty of schools that teach about religion rather than how to practice religion. I took that to mean secular schools - what did you mean?

And I have no idea what you mean by "dreary, narrow and grey" to have no faith input into legistature.

In fact, i don;t think I understand your post at all! You say that you don't want one group to have rights at the expense of another, while simultaneously championing the rights of the Christian faith to have a special position in public life.

Winter-
where did I mention museums?

You were not talking about just schools though were you as you said in your post.

The post you refer to was purposefully dramatic and shocking in nature simply to demonstate ; how far is too far? If you eradicate religion where does the line stop?

You post so frivously, it seems like you have not thought about what you are really saying.How that could sound to other people.

Don't forget in some countries sects of reilgion are illegal. Are these places good examples of what we would like for the UK?

History should tell us if anything, wishing to be rid of a particualr group of people can result in sickening consquences. Think about it.

Im sorry the point of the post eluded you and you did not see the intention of the post and read it the wrong way.

It was designed to make you think- if your wish came true would you really have acheived a greater society?

well my time is linear, so I imagine it would stop in the future rather than the past, but your understanding of words seem to be at odds with normal people mine.

PS, I call Godwins. Shrouded, but clear.

But nobody has ever said they want to eradicate religion.

Winteroftent

You would get on well with my cousin.He is 15.

When he can't comprehend complex arguments he gets scared, so he likes to make odd comments and laugh at his own smugness. He thinks by reflecting his own stupidity onto someone else he is a winner.

Shall I give you his email?

Im glad your normal, I dont know what godwins is but maybe you could tell your vegetable collection all about it.

Ta ta!

Arguing with Roseflower is like knitting fog. While listening to Joanna Bogle.

I can comprehend complex problems, I just haven't seen any from you.

Perhaps you should educate yourself a little more, Let me google that for you.

Oh UQ.

I am dissapointed. I have come to expect some quite good arguments from you. You haven't even tried.

Maybe you ARE my 15 year old cousin!

Yes, but I haven't wasted my best arguments on you, Roseflower, because you have no interest in engaging with them - only in patronising me to make yourself feel better.

UD

You asked a question, a valid, interesting one about "which God". To best knowledge I was the only one who took the time to answer.

Was it a bad answer?

You called me 'daft' which is quite disrepectful.

I felt like you hadn't even read my answer,or if you had you didn't understand it so called me dumb.

For what is worth Im sure choice of God is influenced by culture to an extent.But then we argue the same for atheisim. Perhaps born into another culture, time or era you would religious or have a belief?

'hen I could choose from Judaisim, Christianity or Islam.

Now obviously the first two are the same God. Again it is arguable that the God is Islam is the same as in Christianity, after all Jesus is of course in the Qu'ran. Again this idea is very debated.

'
Sikhism and Hinduism do not have the same God; the Abrahamic faiths do however, there is a clear developmental path throughout the faiths. I know some would disagree.

I ahve sat at university through amnay a debate on the whole Abrahamic debate but never once on the first two faiths sharinga God! Now, they share a lot of roots of course but they are separate faiths.

Hindu god theory is complex anyway: current theory is that village and Brahmanic faiths have actually evovled into different beleif systems: Brahmanic faiths have the ancient faith that was truly monotheistic in origin if not practice (all otehr gods being aspects of the sigular deity), but village hinduism (bit of a patronising name I now, sorry, was the technical term for the theory though) covered people who accepted a multiplicity of gods; tends to be very intersting how new ones can be absorbed, the story of Santosi Ma is one I find fasciniating.

Now, ahven't studied since 2008 (not religion anyway, gone off track for my MA) but will go google for the Sikh / Hindu theory, intersting to learn more.

Oh and WRT to Atheistic system- i;d abck it. As longa s people are able to practice their chosen faith personally, I fully believe that it should be within a secular society; the faith practised at our lcoal school bears no resemblance to the Christianity I foolow, and I would far ratehr children are taught about it from an educational perspective but not a 'this si what we belive' way (village school, not a lot of options- local ones tend to be Church ehre).

It's very intresting to learn about each religion- at university there def was debate about the Hindu/ Sikh = same God; but nothing conclusive. It was only touched on briefly tbh.

The Hindu religion is a bit 'foggy'. I hope to formally study more one day once dc's are older.

I guess Im lucky with my dc's church school. Its so easy going, there is nothing heavy about what they teach it's just really positive things. Maybe that's why I just can't see why people get upset about faith schools as it just has given my dc a very good input.

Rose, (sorry, Scaram, name changed LOL) what did you do at uni? I studied Religion and Philosophy at uni (but am doing MA in Autism now).

DS's Church school is fantastic if you fit a stereotype; mine do not, by way of SN. That's not IMO a Christian viewpoint. They're very heavy in the faith though- have to be, funders assess the kid's knowledge annually from reception year (and I get into the occasional argument about creationism being taught ) so possibly an extreme example!

My old comp, so crica 1989 was entirely secular but some of the kids organised faith groups at breaktimes which were allwoed to meet but were 'moderated' by teachers without specific faith. that worked.

I did Primary Education which included modules in Religion (hence not going into much detail and would like to do more) and also an extra certficate in Catholic Primary Teaching at PGCE level.

Oh your school does sound extreme. Im all for faith schools, but letting people still think for themself too. I know for myself there are aspects of Christianity I don't agree with and it's up to the indvidual to free to choose. I think being that extreme is a guarnateed turn off!

I lived abroad when we were younger so went to private international school in Muslim countries. Was just fabulous- my best friends were Irish, Australian and American. There was just about anyone from any culture there! Guess it helped me be quite broad minded and tolerant.

Roseflower I have just seen your post to me. That's a good question, to my shame I don't know a great deal about religions other christianity. It is something I would like to study at some point, but honestly I think I am too much of a scientist to find anything else that makes as much sense to me.

Thank you for your reply auntpolly. Well it's worth a look into one day even if no other reason than for academic purposes. Funnily enough I remember a lady on the Alpha course saying exactly as you did (a chemist I think but I can't recall) but she actually did end being a Christian so it is possible to find meaning in both for some.

"Only 16% of the world are athesits, but half of these are thestic but not of any reilgion."

By this I guess you mean, popular stuff, or stuff that happens all over the world must be the best stuff.

Like McDonalds, Coca Cola, Rape, War, Justin Bieber.

YES BECAUSE THATS CLEARLY WHAT I SAID. Anyone sane can see thats exactly what I wrote.

It's a stat. A real stat. I copied and pasted it.

The other stuff you made up. FROM YOUR HEAD.

Your trying to be vile and start an argument over a FACT that you intrepted in the most bizaree way, and made out I said it?!

This even beats the fairy thing.

Wow. Wow. Wow.

Weird.

You still haven't answered my post. But I suspect that's because you can't.

Seeker

Actually I did. But it hasnt come one for some reason. I am bed ridden with incredibly bad 24/7 morning sickness and working of a crappy old laptop with poor connection that provides me with at least some distraction, but takes me about 5 minutes to load a page.

It's quite a mircale I can type even two words together.

In the meantime I have been throwing up and dealing with headaches so I am sorry I dont immediatly respond whilst looking after my dc.

But thank you for your kind assumtption and postive attitude.I really don't see why I should make an effort for you now.

Sorry to hear all that. However, you probably could have answered my points in the time it took you to explain why you aren't going to - and you seem to have been able to engatge with other people without much difficulty. I find it interesting that you are too ill and "computer challenged" to answer direct points - but still able to post extensively in the "an't we all just be tolerant of each other" mode when what you mean is "can't non-believers continue to give poeple of faith the privileged position they have always had".

I find that this always seems to happen with people of faith. Try to get them to answer specifics or address the inequalities of the situation and they either go off at a tangent, go all wooly and "can't we all just get along-y", claim discrimination or get offended. You have chosen the "get offended" option. Fair enough, but you do your cause no favours.

Seeker Im finding it a little creepy you have been checking up on me. Im sure you would have noticed me also posting in the pregancy forums as it seems you are following my every move.

You argument also makes no sense. You claim "You have chosen the "get offended" option. Fair enough, but you do your cause no favours." whilst I have "been able to engatge with other people without much difficulty" with also direct points.

Im sorry but Im just creeped out...